E30 or E28?

Just wanting some opionions from you GRM'rs out there.

I'm looking for a reliable DD that I can also have some fun with. My price range is around/up to $2500. I started looking at E30's in the 86-90 year models, and extended my search to the older 5 series up to 88.

I've found both model cars in that price range, and a few examples appear to be decently maintained by people that actually care about the car. I've got a wife and infant, and having the option of putting the little one in the back is a bonus, although it would be infrequent enough in the immediate future that 2 or 4 doors doesn't matter. Until the car proves itself, I won't be sending my wife and child out in it.

Gas mileage? if I can touch 30mpg on the highway that will be great. Here just south of Atlanta, just about all the driving we do could be considered "highway". Everything is 20-40 mins away, 55-65mph roads with minimal traffic most times.

Potential for fun factor. Say I wanna get stupid and turbo the thing, or do a motor swap later. I'd like the potential to be there. A 4 door civic not only commands 3-4K in clean condition around these parts, but it's FWD and spinning lots of tires at the wrong end of the car isn't fun for me.

I prefer a 5 speed, although I can just as easily live with an auto for my DD. Again, the potential to swap to a manual is always there.

I'm really not up and up on either the E30 or the E28. Can they both be made "fun" ? What about reliability?

Your thoughts/opinions are greatly appriciated!

TAftonomos@gmail.com

If you can find a 535is (or better yet euro car) with a 5spd, get it. Otherwise, go for an e30.

There are definitely more hop-up parts for the E30. You also have more parts-swap upgrade potential by taking suspension and steering components from the Z3.

You will have significantly more space and safety in the E28. The rear suspension is a much better design in the E28 as well.

If you an find a 635csi, I love the stylings of a shark.

635csi's are flipping cool

GlennS wrote: 635csi's are flipping cool

I want to get one and build it into a rally car. Then I'll take it off jumps. That way, I can say that I've jumped the shark.

Either one is good (I have one of each.) The e28 will definitely have more interior and trunk space for hauling the family and all their stuff around. You may be able to hit 30mpg with a 528e eta, but they aren't terribly fast. A 535i should get 25+ mpg on the highway and will be quicker, although that's relative...most modern minivans will have more horsepower.

The 535i responds well to turbocharging, I know several guys who are running around 15 pounds of boost reliably (and probably making around 400hp.) They are fun to drive, although not as nimble as an e30. Suspension upgrades aren't hard to do. If you look around you may find a euro spec car (or at least a US spec car that's been converted), they have smaller bumpers and different headlights that are a big improvement in looks over the US parts, plus with the euro spec engine they have about 35 more horsepower.

For your purposes I'd say an e28 may be the best choice of the two.

yeah. other than one with an m30 I'd pass on a e28.

any e30 would do though.

uhhhhh.... AND, that's about what a white 120k mile 2001 or 2002 p71 brings around here:D.

A Volvo 240 might also fit the bill.

The 535is with a manual trans is the only E28 I'd consider (well, M5 but not in your price range). It will get 25mpg highway and cruise all day long at 90mph but is cumbersome in-town and on curvy roads with its old style steering box. It has the best engine BMW ever made and it can make huge power if you can afford to build it. The trunk is cavernous.

The 325i is going to get the same or a little better gas mileage, be more common to find and is better in-town and on the twisties but isn't a match for the bigger E28 on the highway. The engine is nothing special but its stout and will last forever. The trunk is bigger than you think.

Both are great, safe, quick cars - pick the one that suits you best.

One more note, if you get an e30, change the timing belt ASAP.

I know they're not as old school cool as an e30 or e28 but, you might want to consider a e36 too they are plentiful and as cheap as an e30 in many cases. They have a much improved rear suspension and the 24valve engine is like butter. Plus the interior space is on a par with the e28. I average 25+ mpg in mixed driving and see 32+ on the highway at 80+ mph.

That said, I'd trade for a nice e30 in a New York minute.

The M30 was in both the 535i and 535is I believe, although I'm no expert.

Both E30's I've found are in great shape. Both owners want 3500 for them :(

535is is faster than an eta E30 in my experience. They also dont have a timing belt right?

535is SHOULD be faster than the eta anything! No timing belt on the M30, and M30 cars have a reputation for lasting....forever. Don't hesitate to buy a 200k+ mile M30 if the car appears solid. Depending where you are, it might be easy to find an e34 525I in that price range...M50's are boost friendly too.

Nathan (M30 and mounts in the garage for the E30...still torn between the anvil reliable M30 torque monster and the sweetrevving modern fuel efficient M50)

^I have been thinking about possibly doing the M30 swap now for the meaty torque curve and dead nuts reliability and much cheaper.

I wonder what the power potential of an M30 is..

A lightened flywheel will let the M30 rev a lot faster, I have one in my car,

I wonder what the power potential of an M30 is..

250hp or so is about it for a naturally aspirated streetable engine, maybe 300hp or so for a race engine. Turbocharged, the sky (and your wallet) are the limit. Zane Coker's e12 turbo car has been dyno'd at 700hp.

http://home.att.net/~nastroma/blacky.html

The 5's are nice, but really, a E30 will do whatever you need a car to do. The trunk is actually pretty massive. They come in 4 doors for your convenience. Parts are usually really cheap and easy to get. Highest mileage will come from the 4 cyl variety, though the etas do well too. But, I always feel you're missing out if you don't get one with the M20. It's just such a sweet, tractable engine.

$2500 is a tough price point, but they are out there. Really clean ones do bring $3500 or more.

stuart in mn wrote: A lightened flywheel will let the M30 rev a lot faster, I have one in my car,

Thats really nice Stuart. Are those the euro bumpers, or just US bumpers than have been modded?

TAftonomos wrote: Thats really nice Stuart. Are those the euro bumpers, or just US bumpers than have been modded?

My car is a euro spec M535i. It's sort of like the european version of the 535is - It has the single cam M30 engine, along with specific suspension with Bilsteins, a body kit and sport seat interior. Those are euro bumpers, along with M-tech bumper covers; a regular euro e28 has exposed chrome bumpers.

stuart in mn wrote:

I wonder what the power potential of an M30 is..

250hp or so is about it for a naturally aspirated streetable engine, maybe 300hp or so for a race engine. Turbocharged, the sky (and your wallet) are the limit. Zane Coker's e12 turbo car has been dyno'd at 700hp. http://home.att.net/~nastroma/blacky.html

What do they rev like? I know they are known for being torque monsters, but whats the rev limit? Do they have any rocker arm problems or similar limitations like M20s?

250HP crank or wheel? Stock is about 220 crank?

Just curious, I know the 24v swap in E30's is the way to go for more power, but I want to keep a period correct engine in the car!

Any ideas on how much, if at all, you can bore the cylinders out? Or if there is a different crank you can use for more displacement?

z31maniac wrote:

stuart in mn wrote:

I wonder what the power potential of an M30 is..

250hp or so is about it for a naturally aspirated streetable engine, maybe 300hp or so for a race engine. Turbocharged, the sky (and your wallet) are the limit. Zane Coker's e12 turbo car has been dyno'd at 700hp. http://home.att.net/~nastroma/blacky.html

What do they rev like? I know they are known for being torque monsters, but whats the rev limit? Do they have any rocker arm problems or similar limitations like M20s? 250HP crank or wheel? Stock is about 220 crank? Just curious, I know the 24v swap in E30's is the way to go for more power, but I want to keep a period correct engine in the car! Any ideas on how much, if at all, you can bore the cylinders out? Or if there is a different crank you can use for more displacement?

The US spec E28s with an M30 were rated at about 180hp at the crank, while the later model E34 M30 engine was 208hp. Euro E28 cars were rated at 218hp (higher compression, a little bit different cam and ECU.) They'll run out of breath at high revs, although that can be fixed somewhat with a port job and different cam. Korman sells high strength rocker arms for high rpm / race applications. You can bore them out a little, but I'm not sure if it's enough to really increase the displacement enough to make it worth it. You can get a stroker crank ($$$$) and punch them out to 3.8 liters.

Metric Mechanic has some information on what goes into a high performance BMW engine on their website. http://www.metricmechanic.com/ I've had no personal dealings with them, but the concensus in the BMW community seems to be that MM tends to exaggerate their horsepower claims (they never seem to come up with any dyno sheets for proof) but it's still good information.