E30 vs. Miata

I know, another what car thread...I know the answer is always Miata...or E30 but, what if you have to choose between a 1999 Miata (Miata) and 1989 - 1991 E30 325is (E30)? Let's limit the discussion to these two specific models. The purpose is purely for toy/week-end car that I can tinker with mainly for autocross and potentially HPDE/track day and the budget is $7,500 including the price of the car and all the go fast parts (I may be able to stretch it by another $1K).

Pros and cons that I can think of: Miata Pros: Easier, make it much easier, to find than the E30, better suited for autocross, newer by as much as 10 years and parts (incl. go fast parts) are cheaper. Cons: Slightly more expensive than the E30, in track day set-up will be heavier than in autocross set-up due to the need for roll bar and hard top.

E30 Pros: I have to admit that I am a Bimmer fanboi so I don't need to cancel my BMWCCA membership and I love the shape, reliability, and simplicity of the E30. Cons: Very hard to find in decent shape and mileage for reasonable price, not competitive in its class in autocross (STX??).

So let's hear it guys...

You can unbolt the roll bar if you are concerned about the weight. It really won't slow you down that much.

I would say miata wins. If the questions was for dd/weekend toy, they e30 may get the nod, but if it's purely a toy, get the miata.

ea_sport wrote: The purpose is purely for toy/week-end car that I can tinker with mainly for autocross and potentially HPDE/track day and the budget is $7,500 including the price of the car and all the go fast parts (I may be able to stretch it by another $1K).

Just because of this part, I'd go with E30... If you were looking for more of a DD, I'd say the miata as its a much more modern car (this makes sense to me, but probably no one else), but not an NB when you could do NA so much cheaper. NB's are cheap, but not as cheap as E30's from what I've seen (you might have to travel). I think that you'll get more add ons with an E30.

E30 won't be competitive in any class that I'm aware of, and the Miata might not be with the Boxters moving to C-stock.

Anyways, I'd say E30.

Just my own .02, I really don't know a heck of a lot about either.

Miata = top down.

Gearheadotaku wrote: Miata = top down.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/1839/

You really can't go wrong either way. I absolutely love my E30 as a track car, and it was a comfortable road car before it got gutted. The Miata is just fun, but it is more cramped and doesn't have the torque of the BMW six.

OTOH, I do know of a Miata turbo for sale locally that is very nicely done and affordable...

ea_sport wrote: The purpose is purely for toy/week-end car that I can tinker with mainly for autocross and potentially HPDE/track day and the budget is $7,500 including the price of the car and all the go fast parts (I may be able to stretch it by another $1K).

2 more things to consider with the Miata:

Big Pro - Top down summer fun. A lightweight convertible is tough to beat. Big Con - BMWCCA will not let you into their HPDE program with a Miata. Not without a full roll cage anyway. Roll bar, bolted hard top, etc. doesn't matter to them - you're out.

The E30 can fit 4 r compound tires, tools, cooler full of beer and you inside

The Miata is lighter but needs to pull a small trailer to be a track toy

This argument is pointless if you have a tow vehicle.

In reply to ddavidv:

PM Sent

I love my '91 318is slicktop.

My Bronzit with big brakes and OBD-I S52 was fun as well.

However my current E30 is nice enough I'm not sure I want to beat on it at AutoX/HPDE events. I think I'll start looking for a cheap Miata next winter.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: The E30 can fit 4 r compound tires, tools, cooler full of beer and you inside The Miata is lighter but needs to pull a small trailer to be a track toy This argument is pointless if you have a tow vehicle.

+10

ea_sport wrote: ...to choose between a 1999 Miata (Miata) and 1989 - 1991 E30 325is (E30) The purpose is purely for toy/week-end car that I can tinker with mainly for autocross and potentially HPDE/track day and the budget is $7,500 including the price of the car and all the go fast parts (I may be able to stretch it by another $1K).

I guess I should comment.
I am close to your date ranges.

I have owned a '90 Miata for 17 years and now a '87 325is for less than 17 days (still have the Miata.)

If racing were dancing, the Miata fells like the love child of Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. Right out of the box, it can dance and wants to dance.

The 325is "can" dance.
A little training, a little tweeking and I suspect that it will perform well. The BMW does not screem to me to flog it in quite the way the Miata does. Some 17 years later and the Miata still begs for it. I find myself driving the BMW in a mostly civilized manner.
This could be a result of the fact that you have to keep on the Miata to make power. I do find that idea of driving a slow car fast is more fun.

The Miata's on street driving experience feels like an escape from reality and normality with the top down.
The 325is an improvement to reality but still rooted in reality.

Personally, I started autox'ing in a Miata where I bought the Miata first and then found (searched out) autox'ing as a way to further my love for the car. Starting autox'ing in a Miata is an interesting place to start. There is not a lot of "move-up" to other cars since most cars (at least reasonably priced cars) mostly pale in comparison.

If track racing is your real goal, keep in mind the idea that you would not want to take anything out on the track that you can not afford to ball up and leave there. With that said, a replacement/rebuildable Miata will be much easier to find than a quality E30 which you may never replace.

You really can not loose but I will summarize this way.
Miata: pure sport and irrational fun.
BMW: a great compramise (if you have to compramise.)

jrw1621 wrote: You really can not loose but I will summarize this way. Miata: pure sport and irrational fun. BMW: a great compramise (if you have to compramise.)

It seems that for pure fun the Miata gets the nod.

I will have a separate DD and I don't plan on getting a tow vehicle. For the first year or two I probably won't turn it to full blown race car yet and limit the upgrade to remedial maintenance, suspension upgrade (refresh all the bushings, bigger sway bar, and stiffer shocks and springs), sticky tires, roll bar and possibly finding a hard top.

I know that BMWCCA doesn't allow convertible in their track day, does NASA allow Miata with hard top in their HPDE? Thanks all.

I've owned three E30 325is's and both a NA (94) and NB (99) Miata. I moved on from E30's to Miata's because Miata's handle better, cost less to own, and I no longer needed a car with a back seat because I got married and my wife had a sedan.

325i's are faster out of the box and respond well to mods. All of mine spent time at the track and were fun whether stock or modified. Miata's handle better out of the box and respond even better to mods. My Miata's have been autocrossed but not tracked because the clubs in my area aren't convertible friendly, and my cars have been daily drivers which I didn't want to ruin with safety equipment.

jrw1621, That was almost poetry! I couldn't agree more! You brought a tear to my eye.

Depends on your size, too. If you're tall, you may not fit in a Miata so well (especially since the roll bar you'd need for HPDE would further limit interior space), but BMWs are made for tall people, and would suit you better.

If HPDE and other track events are your aim, I'd say go for the Bimmer. (Spec E30 lies not too far down that path, too.) But if autocross is where it's at, the Miata is the Swiss Army knife of autocross cars. Stock, modified, or anywhere in between, it's competitive, fun to drive, and reliable.

I've had both -- and still do have the 91 318is. The Miata is a great sports car, the e30 is a great sports sedan. So, do you want a sports car (better handling/control responses) or do you want a sports sedan (more room and comfort)?

By the way, you can find high-mile E36 M3's in that budget and still have cash for some safety equipment. Just sayin ;)

The Miata is the light and nimble dancer, but I gotta tell ya...the Spec E30 suspension package on mine turned it from a moderately fun sedan into a bondage-loving mistress. It absolutely thrives on abusive, edge-of-adhesion driving now. I get a huge smile every time I'm on the track with it, and it's a throttle-steering bunch of fun on an autocross course too. I think it's all in the level of prep you want.

You really can't go wrong with either choice. It's more a matter of picking which flavor gives you more goosebumps.

ddavidv wrote: the Spec E30 suspension package on mine turned it from a moderately fun sedan into a bondage-loving mistress.

Would that be a package that you could use on the street as well? Or is it too stiff?

kreb wrote:

ddavidv wrote: the Spec E30 suspension package on mine turned it from a moderately fun sedan into a bondage-loving mistress.

Would that be a package that you could use on the street as well? Or is it too stiff?

I too would like to know this answer as a too desire a little bondage-loving from my E30 as well.

jrw1621 wrote:

kreb wrote:

ddavidv wrote: the Spec E30 suspension package on mine turned it from a moderately fun sedan into a bondage-loving mistress.

Would that be a package that you could use on the street as well? Or is it too stiff?

I too would like to know this answer as a too desire a little bondage-loving from my E30 as well.

I drove a spec E30 suspension on PA roads as a DD for 2yrs. It was not suitable at all. I ended up putting really soft touring tires on it and running them low to put some give in the thing but... then I hit a deer and it became a proper race car and we all lived happily ever after.

It absolutely thrives on abusive, edge-of-adhesion driving now. I get a huge smile every time I'm on the track with it, and it's a throttle-steering bunch of fun on an autocross course too. I think it's all in the level of prep you want.

So speaking strictly from a track POV, which car would you rather drive? A spec Miata or a spec e30?

Hmmm, I drive my current E30 on rates similar to the HR Race, and my last one MUCH stiffer. 550/750 with 40series on 17" on the last one. I thought it was acceptable.

Then again, I'm not trying to drive a Cadilac either.

YMMV

I currently own both. Having raced both I have a good perspective. I should start out by saying I love both but they are quite different.

1990 325is Challenge car. Pretty much bone stock motor, 4:10 LSD, ebay type coilovers and extensive lightening program turned this car from a fun car into an autoX monster. Even with puny 205 tires this thing produces some seriously good runs. The car has plenty of torque and the M20 likes to rev so it makes good power. I'd love to drive it every day but the loud exhaust on this car makes that impossible. It is very comfortable though and all the necessary creature features are there.

1999 Miata Leather Package (same as LS). Bone stock engine and drivetrain, KYB adjustables, FM sways, and I ran on the same exact wheels and tires as the E30 (205 Hooisers). Sticks like glue... until it doesn't. This Miata is a lot less predictable than the E30. I felt a lot better connection to the E30.

The Miata is fun don't get me wrong, but at least with this setup it was a lot more work to drive fast. Power was underwhelming also, but that was expected. A glorious street driver though. There isn't much else out there that is as much pure fun to drive sanely on the road than a Miata. You can drive it like a maniac but still be going under the speed limit!

I also have owned a 95 Miata that was supercharged among many other things, but that was years ago and I just can't give an honest review. It was just as fast as the E30 though as confirmed by 1/4 mile times. A lot more maintenance than the E30 though due to the supercharger.

If I had to choose JUST ONE (what a horrible thought!) to buy brand new, I'd probably go with the E30. The additional power and stability tip me in that direction, but it certainly isn't an easy choice!