E36 328i vs RSX Type S vs G35 Coupe

First Post!

I'm currently looking for a winter project and I've broken it down to the 3 I like most: E36 328i Sedan, RSX Type S, & G35 Coupe

Each is different than the other and each offers a different drive. This is a weekend warrior build and will see some street time. The cost of each are within $1000 from each other.

Plans for each:

328i - I/H/E, cams, suspension, brakes, safety - the stock engine is lazy and needs a bump in power.

RSX Type S - I/H/E, suspension, brakes, safety - the stock engine is pretty good for power, no need for the bump in power.

G35 - I/E, suspension, brakes, safety - stock power is good, some suspension bits should make it handle a lot better.

That said, which of the three would you choose with a budget of $8k USD

Do you already have the starting point or would be acquiring it? What are your goals?

I'm going to say personal preference. The BMW is going to be the oldest, the G35 is going to have the nicest interior and goodies, the RSX is going to get the best gas mileage and probably have the most usable hatch/cargo space. Both the BMW and the G35 can sound really nice.

How far do you want to take it for 8k? or do you want a nicer car to start with? I've seen run and drive RSX type S sell for less than 1k on copart. I also saw a 350Z go for like 1500

No practical advice, but V6's are one of my favorite engine configurations and the VQ25 sounds amazing with an exhaust.

The G35 will significantly outrun the other two.

Jaynen said:

Do you already have the starting point or would be acquiring it? What are your goals?

I'm going to say personal preference. The BMW is going to be the oldest, the G35 is going to have the nicest interior and goodies, the RSX is going to get the best gas mileage and probably have the most usable hatch/cargo space. Both the BMW and the G35 can sound really nice.

How far do you want to take it for 8k? or do you want a nicer car to start with? I've seen run and drive RSX type S sell for less than 1k on copart. I also saw a 350Z go for like 1500

 

Thank you for the reply. I feel the same about the RSX being the "most efficient" on the track. It being a Honda, parts are dime a dozen and much cheaper than the other two.

8k is what will be spent on the car after it's purchase. Whichever car will be fully stripped and likely have a half cage. Keeping the OEM gas tank for now. The car will be trailered to the track, so the cargo space won't be an issue.

the BMW is the oldest at 1996, both the RSX and G35 are from '02. All is great condition

As a track car, the BMW hands down.  Not sure I'd call that motor "lazy", it makes almost the same power stock to stock as the RSX.  It also responds really well to an intake, exhaust and S52 cam swap, making close to 240hp at that point.

It'll significantly out perform the other two on the track with your planned mods, is easy to drive, easy to maintain, parts are pretty cheap.

In reply to docwyte :

RSXs put down almost 230 wheel with bolt-ons and a tune, they just don't have a lot of torque. They are severely underrated on track.

For a track car I'd choose the BMW.  As docwyte mentioned, the aftermarket abounds with quality parts, and the E36 handling dynamics are superior to the other two. 

For a street car, I'd probably pick the G35, as the interiors hold together better than the E36 BMWs.   They aren't as friendly to work on as the BMW or Acura though.  

Interesting, as I have kinda had all three of these cars.  I say kinda because my current DD is an FG2 Civic Si, but from what I understand they had a lot in common with the RSX-S.   

My thoughts - the G35 is the most mature and grown-up of the cars, with the most upscale interior.  It is also fairly fast even stock.  

The 328i was significantly down on power from the G35, and just felt a good generation older (5sp vs. 6sp, plasticy interior).    The 328 probably had a lot of untapped potential if you were willing to build it into a full-on street racer, but was kinda pokey stock.    

The Si (assuming the RSX-S is similar) is fun and revvy, but  kind of a torque-less wonder.   It also feels to me kind of like a kid's car, like it was designed to appeal to people who learned to drive from video games.    

There was another thread where I asked one of the guys who has a Time Attack built 350z who's competing on the pointy end with forced induction etc. And based on what he said in terms of things you have to address with the platform I agree about the E36 if this is going to be a trailered track car

if you like FWD save yourself a lot of trouble and just buy this

Supercharged Integra GSR track car

Okay I'm not objective.  I have been tuning an E36 325is HPDE car all summer.  Great track car.  Too bad it's the ugliest BMW in modern history, but oh well.  Really likes limited slip diff, replacement of the suspension bushings and rear chassis reinforcement, adjustable coilovers and rear dampers, adjustable sways, and spring rates kicked up.

I have mine touched up to about 250 crank horsepower at this point, and the weight's down probably to under 3k.  It's fast enough that it's not slow.  But everything out there is so fast now, it's not fast enough for me.  I will be adding serious horsepower this winter, probably up to 375 or so.  You have plenty of money in your budget for power upgrades but I'm just encouraging you to think BIG in that department if you go the E36 route.  After all, who ever finished a track car and said "damn, I wish I hadn't put so much power into this thing."

So what is everything out there that is fast?

RSX has a great motor but the chassis is supposedly a let down when it comes to Hondas. Can't really lose with the BMW,  but will  usually be more expensive.  The G35  would definitely be fun with that V6 note and probably reliable as well.

Jaynen said:

So what is everything out there that is fast?

Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, 911s, GTRs, etc etc?  There are so many fast cars at track days now...

I have an obvious bias here... I've w2w raced an E36 chassis (M3 and 328) for many years and the E30 before that. While you say that engine is lazy - it makes a lot of torque, flat across a wide RPM range. Getting it a little more air (cams + intake, headers and exhaust) will net you 230-250 at the wheels. A lightweight flywheel will make  it zing quickly. The cars can be lightened down to 2400lbs including the cage but still be very street friendly at 2650 or so with the stock glass. With a 3.64LSD, M3 brakes up front, and a good going over to refresh the ball joints and replace all the rubber with something stiffer it will gut stomp the other two in mid-corner, transitions and exit. The fat torque curve makes for good overtaking and easy modulation at the limit. The steering is sublime. There is a reason more than half the track cars at any NASA event are 20 year old BMWs.

The G35 is grown up and nice and for a street car I'd pick that. It's heavy as a result and not nearly as good to drive as it looks like on paper. The motor is sweet though and sounds fantastic uncorked. They look pretty good to my eye also. Much less boy racer than the Z cars.

The Honda is great but it's wrong wheel drive for my tastes so I wouldn't bother with it at all. Replace with S2000 and I'd still pick the E36 for the track because I can go faster in it - but I'd rather drive the S2000 with the top down on a sunny day over any of them.

YMMV.

turtl631 said:

Jaynen said:

So what is everything out there that is fast?

Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, 911s, GTRs, etc etc?  There are so many fast cars at track days now...

Was just curious what in particular Basham was finding was making his e36 feel slow. Corvettes are always an answer for sure

2650lbs with stock glass?  Really?  How?  What's left?  My 98 M3 weighs a touch under 3000lbs with 1/4 tank of fuel.  That's with no interior behind the front seats, fixed back front seats, TC Kline rollbar, harnesses, lightweight battery, all factory glass, radio, AC, cruise etc.

So I've taken out the easy stuff, but to pull out another 300 lbs would require pulling all the carpet, all the sound deadening, radio, AC, cruise, etc, etc.  It wouldn't be very streetable at that point.

docwyte said:

2650lbs with stock glass?  Really?  How?  What's left?  My 98 M3 weighs a touch under 3000lbs with 1/4 tank of fuel.  That's with no interior behind the front seats, fixed back front seats, TC Kline rollbar, harnesses, lightweight battery, all factory glass, radio, AC, cruise etc.

So I've taken out the easy stuff, but to pull out another 300 lbs would require pulling all the carpet, all the sound deadening, radio, AC, cruise, etc, etc.  It wouldn't be very streetable at that point.

 

I might have to back off the streetable claim a bit, it's not comfy just usable, but you can get a bunch more out... Mix and match as you need. Get rid of the heater box, plumbing, sunroof cassette (replace with just the tin sheet from the original and weld in on tabs, seal with windshield sealer), passenger seat, any and all carpeting (70lbs right there if you still have it), remove all the sound deadening tar, gut all the steel from behind the dash, trim the wiring harness down to bare necessity. Gut the bumpers. Lose the eBrake system, remove the guts from the drums, cabling and the all the hardware.  Use thin wall stainless 2.5 or 3" to replace the whole exhaust and use a lightweight racing muffler in the stock location. Headers I'd you have cast manifolds. Lightweight flywheel. Use 1.75x.095 tubing for the cage and don't go nuts with elaborate door bars on the passenger side - just make it class legal and safe. Get some lightweight wheels. Replace the front calipers with Wilwood 4 piston replacements.

This is a 94 325is chassis with all M3 power and running gear. 2650 sitting there. I had to add almost 100lbs to make minimum weight for IS with me in the car, ice box full and 1/2 a tank :) It was a class winner on more than one occasion.

The beauty of that was I was able to add steel plate to where the passenger seat mount holes were - putting it as low as it could be and moving it back and forth on the scales until helped with a nice even weight balance. I'd just pull it out and stuff the fixed back pass seat back in for instructing. It still has working power windows and locks.

OK, I think our definitions of "streetable" are really different!  Yours is a gutted race car that happens to still have working windows.  Mine is basically a street car that's gone on a little diet. 

M3 or a Boxster. 

I owned both a rsx s and  g35.  Neither would be my choice for a track car.  The rsx has terrible suspension geometry that is not feasible to fix, I tried and the g35 is to big and heavy.  There are much better starting points to spend $8k on for a track car.

Basically, all the other BMWs after the E36 (though not sure about the Minis).  All the Porsches from the Boxster era forward.  The C5s forward.  All the "new" generation pony/muscle cars.  Effing Caddys even, these days.

No doubt E36 handling + HP tweaks + serious chassis strip for weight + tires is a genuine pro tool track rat, and I'm not implying it isn't.  If I was looking to go racing, that's probably where I would start my car shopping.

But I already have one car in that category and I'm looking for something fast.  For myself, I personally think an E36 chassis is a great platform to get that speed, for cheap, assuming a mechanically-inclined owner who isn't shy about welding.  Looking back I kinda wish I had started with an E36 M3 chassis with a blown motor, since I would've had better brakes and an LSD right off the top of the deck.  But even that can be fixed for about $500 in used parts.

I would nix the RSX if you're planning on tracking it, especially if you're planning on autocrossing it.  with the RSX, honda went to a 3-channel ABS system (presumably to save cost) instead of the 4-channel ABS on the integra.  in typical spirited driving this is fine, but when you lift a wheel, it realeases both rear brakes, killing all trail-braking effect from the tire still on the ground.  the result is that you go from rotating nicely via trail braking into a corner, and the car switches to front brakes only and starts pushing mid-corner.  

That being said, the RSX is a great car to drive at 6-7/10ths, but will disappoint when pushed to the limit.