Lof8
Lof8 GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/15/18 12:18 p.m.

I recently picked up a salvage 2000 Trans Am. My goal is to end up with an LS1 powered e36 on the cheap, so I’m hunting for an e36 shell. I prefer the looks of a coupe but owned a 99 M3 coupe for a while and those frameless windows were a sloppy nightmare. The sedan doors have window frames and I feel would probably fall apart less easily. 

 

Are the sedans more rigid?  Any other differences I should consider between them?  I’d love to find one with manual windows but that seems pretty rare.  Would an obd 1 or 2 car be simpler when it comes to integrating the LS1 or is it negligible?  

 

Thanks for for any tips!

CyberEric
CyberEric HalfDork
5/15/18 12:53 p.m.

I am pretty sure the sedans are more rigid from what I've heard on the various BMW forums over the years. If you can find one without the rear seat pass through, that is a bonus too. 

pimpm3
pimpm3 SuperDork
5/15/18 1:06 p.m.
Lof8
Lof8 GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/15/18 1:14 p.m.
pimpm3 said:

Race car...

https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/d/1992-bmw-e36-caged-shell/6566132949.html

 

Nice!  I wasn’t planning an all out race car. But that’s a nice deal I’ll have to consider. 

docwyte
docwyte SuperDork
5/15/18 1:24 p.m.

Pretty sure the "sedan is more rigid" is just folklore.  Finding a sedan with the fold down rear seats is actually kinda hard.  I'd go for one WITH that option tho, makes the car so much more useful.

Finding any E36 here with manual windows isn't going to happen unless it was a grey market import.

I'd start with an OBD2 car, that makes doing the swap and keeping the smog referees happy a whole lot easier

Lof8
Lof8 GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/15/18 1:32 p.m.

In reply to docwyte :

No smog to deal with here in FL. Also the interior will end up pretty stripped out to shed pounds. I’d love to build a Challenge competitor, I just don’t know if I’ll be able to keep it under $2k

ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual)
ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) Reader
5/15/18 1:47 p.m.

You can convert the power windows to hand crank, but doing so  requires sourcing non-electric window regulators from the UK/europe, as well as the hand cranks.  Some door cards have a plastic plug over the spot where the crank would pass through, like on almost all e30s. I went down this road at one point, but 10 years ago was too costy, it might be cheaper now.  Well, ok, slow at work so I internetted it a bit. Realoem has the part #s,  realoem linky .  This is on ebay right now, would cost more to ship it than to buy it... Italian ebay regulator

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
5/15/18 2:02 p.m.

The sedans have less room for wider wheels and tires.

According to the guys at Vorshlag (who have done tons of these conversions) the coupe is the way to go if you are swapping in an LS.   

Lof8
Lof8 GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/15/18 2:11 p.m.
Joe Gearin said:

The sedans have less room for wider wheels and tires.

According to the guys at Vorshlag (who have done tons of these conversions) the coupe is the way to go if you are swapping in an LS.   

I’d say those are both strong cases for the coupe. I’d love to find an unsuspecting base model like this 

CyberEric
CyberEric HalfDork
5/15/18 2:21 p.m.

In reply to docwyte :

Yeah, I have only heard it on the forums, never seen in any actual evidence. 

Jah29
Jah29 GRM+ Memberand New Reader
5/15/18 3:54 p.m.

In remember reading an article about the e36M3 factory racecars where bmw said they switched to the sedan body because the aero was a little better and they got a few more mph at the ends of the straights.  You know in case you ever want run the texas mile:)

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
5/15/18 4:27 p.m.

I've also heard the sedan is stiffer, without data. I prefer the looks of the sedan actually, quite a few parts are different (hood, for example).

Sedan might be a bit taller as well.

Lof8
Lof8 GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/15/18 4:53 p.m.

Hearing that the coupe holds more rubber seals the deal. I bolted on some tires that hold air to the trans am. Man this is gonna be fun in an e36!

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/15/18 5:49 p.m.

you know those rims bolt up to the E36, right?

 

And yes, while the Coupe', sedan, hatchback, and even the wagon that we never got in the states all look alike, they share very little sheet metal between them. Front grill panel, fenders, hoods, and doors are all different. I am not sure on the trunk between coupe' and sedan, but I think that is different as well. Same with the interior. You can swap a sedan dash into the hatch, but not the coupe'. All four versions use different taillights

bludroptop
bludroptop UltraDork
5/15/18 8:18 p.m.

Working from memory, the sedans are slightly taller and slightly lighter.

They both fit 255's with a fender roll, neither will fit 265's comfortably without surgery.

The coupe is easier to flare the rear fenders because of the proximity of the rear doors on the sedan.

The aforementioned frameless windows on the coupe can be problematic, and check the prices on a door seal for a coupe (be sitting down first).  The interiors on the sedans seem to be somewhat less fragile/decrepit - for whatever reason.

I've owned both.  I give a slight edge to the coupe for looks and a similar edge to the sedan for practicality.

The holy grail is a no-sunroof car.  Good luck!

Wagons will start to be eligible for import next year.  If I were building one...

buzzboy
buzzboy Reader
5/15/18 8:52 p.m.

I think the correct option is 3 door. Maybe I'm just crazy though.

JBasham
JBasham HalfDork
5/16/18 8:01 a.m.

Either seems to be stiff enough for me. 

I found a clean coupe and V8 swapped it for a track-only car, and it's fine. 

We even had too many guys working on it at the same time one day and dropped it off the support blocks, resulting in them making pretty sizable crimps in the floor pan on both sides directly in front of the rear wheels.  That was a very bad moment in time.  

This happened early on, and it kind of stunk doing all the work to finish the V8 conversion, all the time wondering whether I would need to start over with a new chassis once I got it rolling and it turned out it was crippled. But, no alignment problems resulted and the car is fine at the track. 

If I was going to haul extra wheels to the track in the car itself, I would prefer to have the sedan.  I have to load race wheels into the back seat of my E92 M3 coupe, and it is a bit of a hassle.  Once I cage the E36 coupe, the idea of getting anything into the rear seat bench through the doors will be 100% impossible.

The coupe I bought had fold-down rear seats.  I don't know if that's standard.  But I was able to strip the seat backs down to the metal frame panels, and they clip right back in or out easily.  That gives me a bit of cargo flexibility.  I don't use a fuel cell, so I have been assuming it's not risky to run without an airtight firewall to the trunk.  Maybe that's unsafe? 

There is one thing I didn't factor in when I bought a 325is for a V8 swap.  I was hoping the brakes would be adequate for the track, and I could keep running the 15" wheels for tire (and wheel) economy.  For me, the brakes weren't close enough to good.  That meant I needed to do the E46 330i/325i caliper/rotor/bracket conversion (which worked great for me) and source three sets of 17" wheels. 

Also, the 325is I got had an open diff, which was not close enough to good for track work.  So, I didn't pay a premium for an M3 chassis, but I did need to pay extra for all those parts.

And I think the M3 chassis might come from the factory with the rear subframe reinforcement plates.  I had to install those myself.  I don't like welding on the underside of cars because I'm north of 50 and don't have a lift.  But, it's not that hard, just incredibly tedious.

The damn thing was useless with the stock springs and the OEM rubber bushings.  And the bushings aren't easy to change.  If I stumbled on a rust-free chassis that had the rear subframe and Rtab reinforcements and bushings already done in urethane, I would pay up $500 just for that.

The coupe fenders were really, really easy for me to roll. 

Getting adjustable rebound dampers and height-adjustable springs on all four corners let me balance the suspension to a much better place.  I have a ton less understeer and more stability in the brake zone.  I didn't need camber plates.  Just getting the M3 front strut mounts and swapping them side to side was enough.

Lof8
Lof8 GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/16/18 9:24 a.m.

In reply to JBasham :

Thanks for sharing your experience and tips.  Subframe reinforcements, adequate brakes and LSD are all necessities in my book.

JBasham
JBasham HalfDork
5/16/18 12:04 p.m.

I forgot one other thing.  Since it's a track car, I just didn't feel comfortable leaving the ABS pump right next to the driver side header.  Moving it up by the headlight was a PITA but entirely doable as a DIY.

mtn
mtn MegaDork
5/16/18 12:16 p.m.
Robbie said:

I've also heard the sedan is stiffer, without data. I prefer the looks of the sedan actually, quite a few parts are different (hood, for example).

Sedan might be a bit taller as well.

Matt Murray (I think) used to campaign a 318 in HS. This is what he said when asked why the sedan.

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