E36 M3 vs 951

Commuter/DD, track day, autocross, utility... what would you rather live with

Discuss.

E36 M3 for me please. Like the Porsche but the BMW suits my needs better.

Not that I've made up my mind, but I can get a 4-door E36 M3...

I need to drive something besides my WRX with a turbo to find out whether I just don't like them.

As I've discussed with Ditchdigger, I need to wrap my brain around the notion that while it feels a bit 'soft' and takes longer to come online, a lot of what's available just wouldn't happen at all without that turbo.

Er, the 951 is a 944 Turbo, right? Or is my Stuttgart ignorance showing?

I've had both and I prefer the M3.

It might be a stupid reason, but it's 100 degrees out today and the A/C never seemed to work in the 944. I haven't driven many cars that are hotter inside than a 944 without A/C.

The M3 makes a better noise, too.

Vs threads are back? When did this start? Please try to keep them to less than four of five per page.

Crap - forgot about the vs threads - I've had a few P cars and a few BMWs - just not these versions.

Having never owned either (but owned some E30s and drive all the M3s but the E30 M3) , I'd go Porsche.

The lines of the Porsche just make my man parts tingle, the E36 M3 while a great car, just doesn't really do anything for me.

I saw an E36 M3 on my way into work today. I'll openly admit that I rolled down my window despite the sweltering weather just to hear it...

951 is the better car. E36 M3 are getting past the point of being eligible for my attention. I've heard too many horror stories about the rear subframes failing.

Tell me more about these horror stories that i havent heard one mention of on e36 m3-loving GRM before? Why do they fail? Is it visible?

There is a very over-blown problem with rear subframe mounting points tearing. It's not very common.

Guy I work with has a 210k mile M3 on original, stock bushings, been tracking it for years on coilovers and slicks........no problems.

Another one of those "things" on the Internet. I think it was actually far more common on E46s.

it was far more common on E46s... I have heard of a couple.. but none on the E36. While both cars are near identical underneath, the E36 is lighter and the metal is a little thicker. While the E36 was designed with CAD... they had refined it enough by the time the E46 came out that they thought they knew EXACTLY how much metal they needed to mount the subframe.. no more.. no less..

sadly, they got it wrong

As for which car... as much as I love the E36.. I would have to try the 951 for a year or two in order to form an opinion

Practicality I'd say E36 m3 especially a sedan

But the 951 is better looking to me and is more intoxicating in that way

Jaynen wrote: Practicality I'd say E36 m3 especially a sedan But the 951 is better looking to me and is more intoxicating in that way

Don't forget, the 951 is a hatchback and 4-cylinder turbos can get decent gas mileage (provided you keep the right foot under control)

With both cars, don't buy a bad one, you'll hate life until you fix it all or sell it.

I'm partial to the 951, but I think I'd have to try the other before making a final decision.

I've got the M3 and it's a fantastic balance between practicality and performance, but I've always wanted a Porsche.

I have owned both, and it's not an easy call. Point by point:

Engine: I am deeply in love with BMW I-6s, and the S50/52 is one of the best. Sounds great, power throughout the rev band, buttery smooth, and easy mid-20s mpg if you keep your foot out of it, and not that much worse if you don't. The 951 has an 80s large displacement low-compression 4-banger with a turbo. The good thing is that big power increases are pretty easy (not true on the BMW). The bad thing is that lag is fairly bad and it doesn't sound like anything special. Advantage: M3

Chassis: Very close, slight advantage to the M3, which just about nails the ride/handling compromise, IMO. My 951 was pretty tired in this regard, so that may be coloring my thoughts.

Interior: The M3 is more modern, but the E36 interior never did much for me, just very plasticky and plain. The later-dash 944s are nicer, IMO. Advantage: 951

Styling: 951 every day and twice on Sunday. Not close. The M3 isn't a bad looking car, but it's a generic 90s sedan, IMO. Advantage: 951

Practicality: The 951 does have that big hatch, but the back seat is pretty tiny. The E36 has an actual back seat, can be had as a 4-door, and has a pretty decent trunk, too. Advantage: M3

Aftermarket: It's not that you can't get parts for 951s, but you can't get them from as many places as you can for E36s, and they tend to be quite a bit more expensive. Advantage: M3

Gotchas: The biggest achilles heel of the E36 is the cooling system, not the rear subframe. I did mine with a $400 kit from Bimmerzone. With a 951 you have two, the timing belt and clutch. Both are major jobs, the timing belt requires a special tool or to have a shop do it (I was quoted $600 for the job about 5 years ago). Advantage: M3

Intangibles: The E36 M3 is one of the great performance cars of all time. I enjoyed driving mine a lot and am glad I had one. But it never stirred my soul like the 951 did. I can safely say I'm done with E36s (though not necessarily M3s), but I will own another 944 some day, and it will hopefully be a turbo.

YMMV.

This should be a comparison of the 3.0L 944 S2 vs the M3 not the 951 puffer.

Both are brilliant. Both are faster than they should be. Both are pretty cheap these days.

Get one of each. That way you can drive the M3 while you figure out how to fix the 944.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Get one of each. That way you can drive the M3 while you figure out how to fix the 944.

...Or get a turbo Miata and chuckle at all the time and money the German car owners spend on maintenance and repairs

nderwater wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Get one of each. That way you can drive the M3 while you figure out how to fix the 944.

...Or get a turbo Miata and chuckle at all the time and money the German car owners spend on maintenance and repairs

but but but boxflare...

I've had both. The E36 M3 will be easier to live with as a daily driver. It's bigger, has a real back seat and is easier to work on. The 951 is a better track car. Not a better auto-x car, a better road course car.

Practicality would say an M3/4/5 would be the preferred car, but it just leaves me flat. The 951 is physically gorgeous and an absolute joy to drive. Maintenance on both would scare me. I'd go 951 for the track or autox, M3 for DD/sport driving, and make sure I had something reliable like a modern VW or Audi () for when they're both broken.

The M3 will be an easier car to live with. Just keep up with the trans bushings, rear subframe bushings and control arms/bushings and cooling system. Other than that, they will go forever!

Like Tom_Spangler I have extensive experience with both, and my answer is, it depends. They both have things to love and to hate.

Emotionally, it's the 951 hands down, no contest, not even close. It feels like a supercar where the M3 feels like a very fast sedan. The stability at speed is better in the 951, as is the steering feel. And if you get an '89 model (or any other year with a few mods), it will run off and the leave the M3 as well.

The M3 by comparison is more tossable. To me it's the Miata of the two, if I can use that without offending the Miata guys! For low speed fun, this one is it! But it had many more small issues than did the Porsche. Things would simply "fall off" the BMW, where they didn't on the Porsche.

Parts prices, I found them to be somewhat comparable. The Porsche can be frustrating, as some parts are really cheap, others are astronomical. The BMW parts are fairly expensive across the board, but don't seem to be either cheap or absurd. And given the turbo, it's a bit more complex, but not overly so.

Both need to be maintained by the book, but this is sooooo much more important in the Porsche. If you neglect it, it's worse than an angry ex wife with your checkbook. The BMW can take a little neglect, the 951, no if you want to live through the experience with your credit rating in tact.

So, if you asked me which would I take now, I'd have to say the M3. I still dream about the 951, and loved (almost) every moment I had it, but as a real, functioning, everyday car, the M3 is much better in that function. If it were only a garage toy, the Porsche would sit there instead.

E36 M3 - McPherson front, multilink rear, normally aspirated inline 6 with a useful backseat and a trunk; wins for autox, utility and if the commute is mostly stop-and-go and sideroads

951 - McPherson front, semi-trailing arm rear, boosted 4 with teeny tiny backseat and fastback hatch; wins for trackdays and if the commute is mostly freeways with moving traffic

Both vehicles can be had for cheap relative to their potential performance, but if it were my money, I'd proceed with one of two options:

Option P: Save a little longer for a 968 with M030 suspension +LSD, which are kinda rare, but make for a much better daily driver and a very competent track/autox package.

Option B: Immediately pick up a cheap OBD1 '95 M3 now and then save up for a euro S50B32 + 6-speed swap and have all the sonorous independent-throttle-body goodness of an E46 M3 in a lighter, less electronically burdened package.

On the autocross/track thing, I autocrossed both cars, and the 951 (well, my 951) was quite honestly, terrible. Again, it needed shocks and possibly some bushings, but also, the turbo lag was a huge issue. The M3's wide powerband and easy torque made it a much better autocrosser.

I never did any track days in the 951, but I can imagine it would be a lot of fun. Keep an eye on the temp gauge as you would with any forced induction car on track. My M3 was a competent if not particlarly exciting track car. You could flog it all day without missing a beat and drive it home. But the limitations of the stock suspension showed on track, too, in the form of body roll.

It's hard to pin down my feelings on the E36 M3. It's a fantastic car with great performance and practicailty, and there probably isn't a better performance bargain on the used market right now. But it just didn't "grab" me. Honestly, I think a lot of it is the aforementioned 90s blandness of the styling and interior.