E39 M5 running costs

Spending more time driving kids around than I used to, I've been thinking of selling the Miata and transitioning the E36 M3 to the HPDE/autocross toy. I need a second car that's comfortable enough for long drives, and none of my 18 cars has had a V8. Major oversight. An M5 seems like a completely sane and logical garage buddy for the E36. I'd probably be looking for a well maintained one in the 100K-150K range that I'd plan to put about 5000 miles per year on.

I've had an E28 and E34, and worked on my dad's E39 a couple of times, so I'm not scared of BMWs in general, but the M5 is a more complicated beast. How do the parts costs, reliability and general ease of maintenance on the E39 M5 compare to its lesser E39 brethren? Does the S62 offer typical BMW longevity?

You have to pay the M tax on these cars, so parts are going to be more expensive than regular E39's. It isn't a cheap car to fix if something goes wrong, and gas is also not cheap.

I see that VANOS issues are starting to pop up as these cars get older, past the 100k mile range. There are many good videos (I made a few) and write-ups on how to fix these issues yourself using a multimeter, soldering iron, and compressed air. VANOS issues are the most common threads on M5 forums now, when I still pop back on them every once in a while.

You also get the rod bearings scare, as well as timing chain guides failing. Those two are also big dollar repairs are out of the scope of most DIY'ers, but this is GRM so I expect that you would have no problem tearing the bottom end of an engine out for rod bearings or retiming the engine for timing chain guides. They don't really have cooling system issues like 530's or 525's, and the thermostat is super easy to change if it goes bad. Suspension consumables are suspension consumables, and for a DD, you could get away with replacing very few bushings and still have a rock solid highway cruiser.

Some parts are normal E39 parts, so they cost what they always cost. Some parts are M5-specific, and those cost a lot more. Not due to an "M tax" but due to simple economies of scale. On mine, I've replaced shocks (E39 bits), front control arms and bushings (E39 bits), MAFs (a waste of money, but E39 bits, you just have twice as many), O2 sensors (which was the real problem, not the MAFs, again, E39, but more than you'd have on a six cylinder).

I have been paying attention to the price of brake parts, though - those are M5-specific and cost accordingly. Same with water pumps.

The M5 owners freak out about two things. Any possible running problem is blamed on the MAFs. And VANOS service is basically brain surgery. In my experience, the former has not been the case and the latter is just plain wrong. I put off servicing the VANOS for about a year because of what I'd read, then found out it's about as hard as swapping a serpentine belt.

Where they are difficult is dealing with the computers. It's possible to set up a laptop to run the factory diagnostic software if you buy the right dongles, but it's a different OS and not just a standalone program. Mine's got a bad airbag controller, which means I can't put a new one in until I get someone to tell the main computer system not to reject the new part. Of course, the closest guy with that software is 250 miles away. I'm not exactly in a major metropolitan area, you see.

One thing about the M5 - if they're not completely perfect and under 100k, they're treated as radioactive. There are some deals to be had. They're a totally different beast than the 540i Sport to drive, and well worth the extra hassle.

Fortunately, I've got a laptop with the BMW INPA software with the special ADS dongle to talk to the airbag/traction control modules on the E36. I'm assuming this'll still work OK on the E39...

I'd be driving relatively few miles, so I wouldn't expect to do the major consumables more than once. I'm more concerned about the "these fail completely out of the blue and cost $5K" types of things, or repairs that are much more labor intensive on an M. Sounds like they're mostly OK.

Rod bearings and timing chains I wasn't aware of. I'll look into that one. Thanks.

If you have the INPA software with ADS, you should be good to go. If you end up with a 01+ model, you're going to need to make a 20-pin to OBDII connector adapter to communicate with the car, as BMW did away with the 20-pin after 2000. You may also want to look into installing DISv44/GT1 for help with the VANOS and other short tests on the car's computer.

The only things I see failing completely out of the blue and costing $$$ are rod bearings and timing chains. The rate of failure isn't high, but is creeping up due to the age and mileage of the car. For instance, 1-2 years ago when I was active on the M5 forums, thermostats were the big topic. Now, I see a lot of VANOS repairs and a few timing chain guide replacements.

I drive BMWs and was always of the thought that if you had to ask how much to service you could not afford it. I am glad to here that may not be the case. I will have put them back on the radar. does anyone have expeience with the e60 versions? can't get the v10 out of my head

tickets, make sure you factor in the cost for those

This post contains a shameless plug.

I am selling a very nice 2003 540i/6 M Sport. 94,000 miles. Im in NJ. Send me an email at Grinch337(at)yahoo(dot)com if you happen to be interested.

Sorry I have nothing to contribute to your thread other than this. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

ryanty22 wrote: tickets, make sure you factor in the cost for those

Goodness, yes. I have a tendency to hit three digits every time I get behind the wheel. It seems fast in isolation, but if you unleash it with any other cars around you discover that it's REALLY fast. The classic iron fist in a velvet glove.

And that's with a 20% horsepower loss due to altitude. Someday I will drive this car at sea level...

I'm almost positive that within the last couple years there was guide for these published in GRM.

I remember it because shortly before the issue arrived at my house, a high mileage example came up for sale at a dealer in my area for a bargain price. After reading the article and being made aware of some of the headaches and expenses, I was glad I never made an unsupervised visit to that dealer...

Keith Tanner wrote:

ryanty22 wrote: tickets, make sure you factor in the cost for those

Goodness, yes. I have a tendency to hit three digits every time I get behind the wheel. It seems fast in isolation, but if you unleash it with any other cars around you discover that it's REALLY fast. The classic iron fist in a velvet glove. And that's with a 20% horsepower loss due to altitude. Someday I will drive this car at sea level...

Solution: Really loud exhaust so you want to keep the RPMs low for some comfort.

But I love that high rpm howl. This is one of those engines that sings opera.

Every time I get into the throttle in the city, this goes through my head.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5eoNyWUz8I

Keith Tanner wrote:

ryanty22 wrote: tickets, make sure you factor in the cost for those

Goodness, yes. I have a tendency to hit three digits every time I get behind the wheel. It seems fast in isolation, but if you unleash it with any other cars around you discover that it's REALLY fast. The classic iron fist in a velvet glove. And that's with a 20% horsepower loss due to altitude. Someday I will drive this car at sea level...

Even the older ones you could be doing 80 mph while inside the cab it only feels like 35-40 mph

Is this even berkeleying possible?

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/4455863407.html

Teh E36 M3 wrote: Is this even berkeleying possible? http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/4455863407.html

If that's real, you should jump on it!!!

In reply to dyintorace:
Yeah, seems to be slightly relevant to OP's interests.

I loved my e39 M5. Bone stock other than a Dinan exhaust set up. The noise that car made was absolutely amazing! I miss hearing it regularly.

If I recall there are other things about it you don't miss tho...

A big part of the operation costs will come down to how well the previous owner/owner's maintained the car. Ask for service records.

Grinch337 wrote: This post contains a shameless plug. I am selling a very nice 2003 540i/6 M Sport. 94,000 miles. Im in NJ. Send me an email at Grinch337(at)yahoo(dot)com if you happen to be interested.

This isn't a bad choice at all. A friend of mine just bought the same model, and it's a lot of car. For daily use a 540i is probably a better choice.

I spent a fair bit of time in a 540i Sport before buying the M5. Very different car to drive in my experience. It wasn't an M sport, if they're different from the normal Sport. But overall it was just a nice sedan. The M5 feels special, as if the engineers were given free reign to build the best car they could. It wasn't a hard decision to spend the extra money.

My buddy had an E39 540i with a 6spd manual and the M sport package. I remember him loving that car dearly but he had a few issues with the rear end, transmission and some electrical gremlins. He was well over $10K in repairs when he got rid of....he was very sad but very relieved at the same time. Car had well below 100K Km when he bought it as well and full BMW service history. I love these cars, but if something goes wrong, sell the house and auction off the children......

I wouldn't want to pay anyone else to maintain a BMW built in the last decade and a half.

docwyte wrote: If I recall there are other things about it you don't miss tho...

That's a valid point. I put a fairly decent amount of money into it. In fairness, many of the issues were things that were wrong with the car upon arrival. The PPI was less than adequate.

Ha. That describes my experience buying my 944 to a T. "The PPI was less than adequate."

I still have my 2000 540/6 with 140k on it, got it new. If you don't do your own maintenance and have to ask how much it will cost you to have the dealer or indie to maintain it you shouldn't buy it. I've spent more on mods than repairs. M5 LSD, dual stage nitrous, water/meth, Dinan stuff, H&R springs, Koni FSD's, etc. You BMW guys must know about the parts available from Besian Systems to fix the Vanos problems. Just did my cam chain guides because I had the covers off to replace some leaking gaskets and powder coat them. The guides were still fine, but the parts cost was minimal, another "while your in there" thing. Special tools for timing the engine are required for those of you that never had a bimmer.