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novaderrik
novaderrik UltimaDork
3/5/16 2:53 a.m.

so, what is the proper procedure for driving with GM ABS systems from that era?

do you keep pushing the pedal as it kicks back at you and gives you no stopping power at all, or do you let off the brakes to stop the pedal from kicking back at you so hard and have no stopping power?

rslifkin
rslifkin Reader
3/5/16 9:02 a.m.

As outasite said, it's meant so that when an idiot panics and slams the pedal to the floor, they don't lose steering. If you can keep yourself from doing that, you can probably out-brake an older (not very good) ABS system easily.

In the Jeep, I always found it best to back off and stay just short of the ABS activation point for fastest stopping.

novaderrik
novaderrik UltimaDork
3/5/16 11:14 a.m.

true, but the GM system can be so unpredictable and makes the pedal essentially useless.. it's not something that you fully understand until you've actually slid out into a busy intersection because the brake pedal decided to go totally useless.. i've had it happen a few times in a few different vehicles in moderately slippery conditions that would have been easily managed in a car without ABS. i'm a lifelong GM fanboy, and i hate their ABS systems. my 99 Saturn left the factory without ABS, and the fuse is pulled on my 97 Chev K1500 truck because it kicks in at low speeds on dry pavement.

outasite
outasite Reader
3/5/16 11:25 a.m.

I found the video I referred to on youtube. It is dated but the info is interesting.

Copyright GM: Chevrolet Fleet Milford ABS roll call training video featuring Michigan State Police

P.S. As with traction control and stability control, ABS systems depend on the traction of the tires in current weather/road conditions.

rslifkin
rslifkin Reader
3/5/16 11:57 a.m.
outasite wrote: P.S. As with traction control and stability control, ABS systems depend on the traction of the tires in current weather/road conditions.

That reminds me of a key point. If you run tires that behave significantly differently than the OEM ones, ABS, stability control, etc. suddenly become totally useless. They're typically tuned based on an average all season, so if you're on aggressive summers that handle much higher slip angles, etc. the system will cut in way too early and not let you use all the grip you have.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy PowerDork
3/5/16 3:40 p.m.

I knew this was going to degenerate. What we have here is a discussion between theoreticists and operators.

The ABS system works as designed in GM vehicles. It is programmed incorrectly, and far , far too aggressively. I have a pothole on a street coming up to a busy intersection here that I can put the fuse back in my truck and exhibit the danger, if any programmers would care to come by. I can then exhibit proper programming by having them drive my Volvo of similar vintage through the same pothole, coming up to the same approaching semi.

The difference is frightening. I equate it to a 4 year old girl who steps out in front of a car, looks at the car, screams, covers her mouth with her hands, and is killed. The Volvo is the little girl who sees the car, and steps back onto the sidewalk.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltimaDork
3/7/16 11:42 a.m.

In reply to Streetwiseguy:

Exactly. When the pedal kicks hard enough to pop your foot off the pedal, that's a safety issue.

With tht said, the 88 C4 didn't react nearly as poorly as the 91 B-body of Dad's.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltimaDork
3/7/16 11:44 a.m.
outasite wrote: The purpose of ABS is to "enhance" steering control during panic braking situations. I agree that it's operation and effectiveness depends on the road surface and weather conditions. GM provided a video to law enforcement agencies that purchased ABS equipped squads to demonstrate ABS operation because of accidents incurred by officers not understanding the purpose or operation. ABS cannot over come the laws of physics. A customer complained ABS did not operate properly since they had ran into the back of 2 cars on separate occasions at icy intersections. I guess they expected the trunk monkey to throw out an anchor to stop them on black ice.

If you would read what we're actually saying about these systems, you'd realize that it has very little to do with driver's reacting poorly,and everything to do with a poorly designed system.

theenico
theenico Reader
3/8/16 2:56 p.m.

GM's calibration guy must have not retired yet. My 2012 Sonic will ABS like crazy if you hit the right sequence/frequency of bumps while hitting the brakes. I generally run it with the ABS pump fuse removed from Feb-Nov. For the rest of you that may have a Sonic, it's fuse #30 in the engine bay fuse box.

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