One of the GRM project cars was an E30 that they built into an M3 doppleganger. With the limited supply and outrageous pricing on the new cool specialty models, it got me thinking- which cars are out there that can be bought in base form and transformed into something like the cooler model?
How hard is it to turn a Civic Si into something like a Civic Type R?
Add all the cool 1LE bits to a base model Camaro?
Make a base CTS more like a CTS-V?
What are the best platforms to start with? NA/NB Miatae are basically blank canvasses, but there have to be other later model cars that perform the same function.
The thing about the NA/NB Miatas is that they don't have cooler big brothers :) You can modify them, but there's no Type R or V or M equivalent to built them into.
The problem I can see is that a big thing that makes the cooler model cool is the special parts. I remember you could identify a real Integra Type R by the five bolt hubs, for example. The easiest ones to duplicate are the ones that are just combinations of existing options, like the big engine with the cloth interior sort of package (1LT Camero!). I suspect most of them are american.
It's usually cheaper to buy the cooler big brother than buy a lower spec car and build it up.
now the WEIRD thing is, at least 5 years ago, it was cheaper to buy an S60R than an S60 T5. Or an S60 2.5T. That would be like an E36 M3 being cheaper than a 325i.
'80s Monte Carlo to the SS version is pretty simple.
E36 m3 from run of the mill e36. Bumpers, reinforcements, bolt in cheapish motor, wheels, then some small m striped pieces and BOOM. Basically.
That's why it's a no brainer bang for the buck considering the e36m3 values versus e36 325i values.
Keith Tanner said:
The thing about the NA/NB Miatas is that they don't have cooler big brothers :) You can modify them, but there's no Type R or V or M equivalent to built them into.
If you really wanted to put a lot of work into it and only get 40 more horsepower then there is the Mazdaspeed. :)
My friend recently did the MSM swap but the nice thing is turbo gains are really easy so a 200+hp MSM is not expensive or difficult.
Caprice to Impala SS (94-96, that is). Not quite as easy to clone with all the subtle differences, but the main functional differences were springs, wheels, and 3.08 rear.
In reply to buzzboy :
I would change that 200+ into 200, that's right where it gets expensive and difficult. Unless you're swapping out the turbo, injectors and engine management and then you're just using a 1999-00 engine with some aftermarket parts :)
There are a lot of really interesting upgrades on the MSM Miata, though. Things like bigger CV joints and larger flanges on the diff, little tweaks to the cooling plumbing, a completely different fan management setup - while you can drop in selected parts of an MSM into an earlier car (I have a 1990 Miata that has a MSM engine with an FM turbo and is a 2004 from an ECU standpoint), you're only copying parts of the car. To get a full "conversion", you'd need body parts, interior parts, drivetrain parts and a bunch of wiring.
Now, if we're talking about cheap and cheery "almost the same because I only changed the parts I could find/think are interesting", that's a different conversation.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
i knew a guy with a body shop that did probably dozens of 9c1 caprice swaps to impala ss. He was good at it. He'd finish one, drive it until he got bored, sell it, build another and on and on.
I would think Mustang has to win this.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
Caprice to Impala SS (94-96, that is). Not quite as easy to clone with all the subtle differences, but the main functional differences were springs, wheels, and 3.08 rear.
Aren't those tough because of the rear quarter windows?
I can definitely see the mechanical changes being pretty straightforward, it is a GM after all.
How about a Firebird to a Trans Am. Or a '72 Nova to a SS Nova. MGB to a MGC.
wvumtnbkr said:
I would think Mustang has to win this.
Depends on year, but speaking for 94-2004 (and very similar for 79-93) the v6 would not work out, different rear end, brakes, engine, and trans in almost all circumstances. The gt to cobra may only work out for 93-95, but still, brakes etc. Then there's front and rear bumper covers for most, it adds up quite quickly.
Let's say you wanted to build a cobra out of a 96 V6, you could get a Lincoln mkviii engine, a gt trans, the rear axle from the gt, source the brakes and the bumper covers (with fog lights), different headlights and hood. Then the steering wheel (with cobra airbag cover) gauge cluster, I can't remember if a gt had different seats or if you could even get leather with a v6... There's a bunch of other stuff missing like springs and swaybars...
Finding parts is tricky now.
My '85 Nissan 200SX felt like a little brother to the 300ZX (not really the twin turbo) but it was RWD with a 5-speed trans and the Nissan IRS R180 rear?
Then in'87 they upgraded to the 3 liter V6 engine and was more like the Z? Still a little brother but not really a Firebird to Trans Am changeover.
Sticking with the German sports sedan theme, you could always buy a cheap Mercedes 190E 8v and convert it to a 3.2 AMG clone.
Many '90s Benzes had the 24-valve M104 engine that you could swap in. Add some AMG wheels, 500E Brembos, and lowering springs.
As I understand it, a lot of ppl have been trying that with the Raptor. I don't know much about them, so maybe it's just the body panels they're trying to mimic.
In a total change of gears, what all [visible] hardware makes a Plaid a Plaid?
The idea of mimicking a faster car leaves me feeling like a poseur.
Frankly I like stealth. Small quiet looking car filled with a giant snarling beast of a motor and running gear.
Let me go on the record of agreeing with Frenchy on this one. Sleepers rock.
No Time said:
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
Caprice to Impala SS (94-96, that is). Not quite as easy to clone with all the subtle differences, but the main functional differences were springs, wheels, and 3.08 rear.
Aren't those tough because of the rear quarter windows?
I can definitely see the mechanical changes being pretty straightforward, it is a GM after all.
Not really. The 94s were unique, but the glass is still available. Not plentiful, but it's out there.
I was thinking more about making it functionally drive like an SS as opposed to cloning.
P3PPY said:
In a total change of gears, what all [visible] hardware makes a Plaid a Plaid?
That's your sleeper. I think the only visual identifiers are a badge, a spoiler and a couple of material differences in the interior trim. It doesn't snarl, though, just runs away.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:
How hard is it to turn a Civic Si into something like a Civic Type R?
Si is not available has a hatchback. Type R is only available as a hatchback. So really it would be easier to start with a base (sport?) hatchback.
I've been pondering what it would take to put Veloster Turbo running gear in my Kia Soul if the engine dies on me.
20 years ago, I'd have said starting with a base model Dodge Coronet and swapping in a 440 Wedge. Not exactly cheap these days.
Our own Calvin Nelson is getting 800+ horsepower from a completely stock bottom end ( fresh out of the junkyard never opened up ).4200cc The only change was a pair of reground camshafts and aftermarket valve springs. Oh, and E85 fuel.
That was on a 175,000 mile junkyard motor. It did go bang after they put 40 PSI boost pressure in. Previously they limited boost to 30 psi. And that's when they got the 824 hp.
My point is you can get 440 cu in power power + from a lot of current engines using Megasquirt and E85.
Build a base rabbit into a Gti clone is pretty easy. Did it a number of times.
