Educate me on Range Rover

MG Bryan wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

MG Bryan wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: Damn it now I want to go look for a Range Rover again... Damn. I really want a Defender though but those are ungodly expensive.

How about a Series III? http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/2887554311.html

I was thinking of a '90s one but I am not buying anymore cars this year.

Just a thought. My experience is that a Defender can't be had for less than $10k. Which has me back to looking at the Series trucks.

There is a place by my uncle's place in Britian that sells ex-British army stuff including Defenders (even some LHD models). I really want to bring one back...

Range Rover Classic or go home.

They're cheap enough these days that if it does have catastrophic failure, throw it away.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

Too bad all the good Classics are still expensive and the cheap ones are beat to hell or rusted out.

forzav12 wrote: Once again, the GRM crew is giving bum advice about cars most of them have had ZERO experience with.

I have some experience with Range Rover classics and would say to stay the heck away from them if you want a nice family friendly daily driver. It might be that if you didn't mind some stuff just being broken all the time it would be reliable, as yes they do get you around like a mule as long as you take care of the engine. But my experience was that they will always be making odd noises, the dash will be lighting up like an old school slot machine, electrical bits and sensors will be failing, and the tailgate, frame, and floors will rust. I have owned two and my dad has owned one for a very long time (like 20 years at this point). My dad is the type to have a mechanic work on the car and fix things every time anything has gone wrong, his is perfect, but he has spent over $36,000 in repairs over the last 10 years. I expect that anyone with the level of detail he keeps and the expectations he has would spend a similar amount to keep one on the road. He hasn't been modifying it or doing things that didn't need done, he was just keeping it tip top and making sure everything worked and no warning lights were on.

The first one I owned was trouble free, but then I only owned it for a short time and it had all of 30,000 miles on it. The second one was a nonstop fountain of troubles and when I compared notes and realized it wasn't a short term phase I got out from under it at a massive loss. I haven't regretted selling even once.

The ride is incomparable, you feel like the king of the world and in complete safety and comfort no matter what the conditions. The ergonomics are terrible, made by a people that think suffering is a virtue so you're bolt upright and the controls are always just a little too far to reach. The a/c is lukewarm and the heat is lukewarm but that's okay because the fan is so loud you don't feel like running them anyway. The ride is the same whether you're on glass-smooth pavement or buckboard dirt roads. They're amazingly capable off road. They're slow whether they're empty or loaded to the gills and reliably get 12mpg no matter what you haul or how fast you go.

Honestly I still want one despite being bitten pretty hard. Maybe one of these days when I can have more than 4 cars and it's okay for it to sit from time to time.

Someone said about Land/Range Rovers: Buy a cheap broken one and put the $4k into it to make it perfect because if you buy an expensive running one you will still end up putting $4k into it to make it perfect.

They were fairly spot on with my 99 Disco II. I rebuilt the front driveshaft, replaced the head gaskets, replaced the water pump and all associated parts, replaced the rear air springs with coils, and then sold it with an engine knock, a bad ac fan relay, a bad window regulator, and a picky electrical system. I bought it for $3,500 which was cheap at the time and sold it for $1,200 broken. If I had started with one of the several available $1,200 broken ones I would have replaced all the same things and ended up with a fresh vehicle.

Land/Range Rovers of that age will need all the repairs I did (except for the rod knock-that was abuse on my part) at around 100k miles. If you buy one that hasn't had all of those done, budget the money for doing them yourself.

Delayed edit: I think a LSx 4.8 or 5.3 swap with the stock Rover transmission would make a heck of a DD.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Too bad all the good Classics are still expensive and the cheap ones are beat to hell or rusted out.

When i was shopping for an SUV (ended up with XJ) there were RR Classics in about the same price range and even cheaper than what i paid for the XJ. They weren't in MINT condition by any means, but very solid nice trucks.

That said i'm sure that 1) The XJ overall is in better shape, despite having more miles than the Classics i was looking at and 2) The XJ is more reliable, if not as cool.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

I will agree with you on that.

This was my wife's very nearly daily driver P38, a 2001 4.6 HSE:

Drove it all over the east coast, from Baltimore up to Vermont on one trip and New Hampshire on another, as well as out to Cedar Point in Ohio (the pic above was from that trip). And regularly up to the middle of CT from Baltimore.

19 mpg highway normally, 11 mpg towing the trailer. In the 3 years I had it it needed spark plugs, plug wires, oil changes, a battery, tires, and finally, at 95kmiles it needed the air ride gone though, which was cheap and easy to do. The air ride scares people, but it's simple and fairly cheap to DIY. Air bag replacement is $100 per corner and takes only a few minutes per corner. I also rebuilt the air distribution block, as the O-rings tend to dry out over time. At 95k miles, this is what my air springs looked like:

And doing the air distribution block:

One thing I added was the M.A.R.S. manual air recovery system, which allows you to air up individual corners with an air bottle or at the gas station in case there's a compressor failure. $130 it's cheap insurance and peace of mind. Other than that, these are the BMW years, where the injection was replaced with Bosch and many of the electronics are shared with the 7 and 5 series cars. It's actually quite reliable and comfortable, and so long as you DIY everything, cheap to own. Do NOT take one to a Land Rover dealer to have work done. As an example, the brakes on it can be DIY'd for under $500 for all pads and rotors. The PO got charged $3500 at the dealer for the same job. The dealer wanted $45 for each spark plug wire. I got a good aftermarket 8mm silicone jacketed wire SET for $45.

it was my third Range Rover, after an '88 SWB and a '95 County LWB, and I would own another in a heartbeat.

I keep looking for a County LWB Classic. LOVE those trucks.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I keep looking for a County LWB Classic. LOVE those trucks.

The LWB County Classic is a great daily driver truck, though I prefer the earlier SWB trucks for offroading, as they are a bit more agile offroad and have a turning radius that is essentially theri own length. the LWB trucks, at least as far as I've seen have a HUGE turning circle. But, they have the better engines in the 4.2 liter. Better fuel mileage AND better power. That being said, I still loved mine. Dead nuts reliable and used it to tow all over, too...

One thing to lok for on the classics is rust. The corners of the rear hatch rust out, as do the rear floors. I woudl look for one that spent it's life doing housewife duties, like our did before we got it:

In reply to Chris_V:

How does the P38 tow with that camper? What are the tow ratings? My wife is on board for a P38 so it could be a possibility for the future.

The Rangie is supposed to be rated for 7000 lbs (6000 offroad) but I'd not go quite so high, as you want some reserve. The camper we had was 4200 lbs loaded and it towed just fine, even over the Appalachians when going to Ohio. Trailer brakes are definitely a requirement, though. We only retired the Range Rover because we were moving up to a much larger travel trailer (6800lbs empty). But it was a good, comfy combo. And the air ride was nice for keeping the rig level (and I'd drop it down to kneel mode to hook up and unhook, which was fun to watch people's faces when we did that at the campsite).

BTW, I'd only tow with the 4.6. The 4.0 SE was weak, with much less power overall. It'd be real slow.

Junkyard_Dog wrote: 2002 was the best year IMHO, and I was a dealer tech for 11 years. Every one had the 4.6 and factory nav.

Cool, now I know which one to snag for my TR8. It bolts in except for the timing chest and intake, but I can handle that easily. Of course, replacing my 3.5 with that 4.6 will require restraint, or a new rear end. . . . . . .

Thanks Junyard_Dog!

Jack