Eh, this is a bit worrying, trackday content and Laguna Seca, too

Friend of mine who is a motorcycle racer shared this on FB earlier today, but I think this post might be of interest to this crowd, too:

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/could-this-lawsuit-affect-track-days-and-club-racing

Short version - participant in motorcycle trackday has accident, sues trackday organiser despite apparently having signed a waiver, and everbody else in sight for good measure.

Looks like this is going to trial proper in the next few months. Let's hope that common sense prevails and the outcome doesn't create additional issues for trackday organisers.

Honestly, it looks to me like the rider is kind of a scumbag. He could have hit a sandbag. Or some tires. Or a raccoon. Or whatever. Waiver is a waiver. He didn't do his own due diligence in inspecting the track and asking the right questions about safety prior to signing his life away...if that's the card he really wants to play. 

In reply to Mndsm :

Not disagreeing with you on your points. Doesn't mean that a jury will see it the same way if it really goes to trial, plus given that it's Laguna Seca, the angle of certain locals wanting to shut down the track for good should always be considered...

In reply to BoxheadCougarTim :

Oh, hes getting paid. You don't hire gold plated ambulance chasers with multi million dollar records and don't get paid. Its just unfortunate that some jackass that ran out of talent is gonna berkeley my chance of ever lapping the place. 

Yeah.  Here's what a waiver means:  --><--.  Exactly that much.  Nothing, zip.  They make you sign them so that you think you gave up your right to sue them.  Ask any lawyer.

Kinda surprised that it's taken this long given the ubiquity of trackdays, and the sometimes indifferent safety practices therein. Here's hoping that the insurance carrier pays him off and it all goes away - till the next one  

There are a couple of hints in the article that suggest it's happened before, but that the settlements had been confidential. I think the big difference this time is that the owner of the track day organiser isn't going for a quiet settlement.

I kinda hope the judge throws it out. This could be one of those precedent setting cases, especially given the numbers being thrown around. 

IIRC they hadn't had much luck with that - the judge threw out the case against the track itself, SCRAMP, Monterey County and Mazda, but the suit against the organizer was allowed to proceed.

This is just another example of the litigious society we live in.  I don't know what the answer is but it's completely out of control. All you have to do is watch daytime TV around the game show/talk show times and see all the commercials for lawyers claiming how much they have won for their clients. Everybody wants to sue everybody for everything.  It's ridiculous.  I could see these types of events eventually just going away due to the costs of doing business. Very sad. 

In reply to Feedyurhed :

Its symptomatic of a much larger issue where society believes it's someone else's fault and they're always the innocent one. Same syndrome as the old adage "Tommy broke my dolly!" "How did Tommy break your dolly?" "I hitted him over the head with it!". And it's only getting worse. However, that's as far as I'm willing to discuss the issue, or I'm going to throw my phone. It bothers me greatly. 

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm in two minds about the "litigious society" part. Not because I think that there aren't frivolous lawsuits, but because I'm getting the impression that these days, issues especially between consumers and companies that would've been resolved without much fuss (and more common sense) in the past get stonewalled until people have to take up legal remedies.

What we mostly hear about are suits on the more "B.S." side of things, and that may distort the picture. And the ads for ambulance chasing lawyers aren't helping.

The problem is that people having access to legal remedies when they need them will always result in a certain amount of lawsuits that probably shouldn't have happened. I'm just extremely wary of using that excuse to reduce people's access to said legal remedies.

That said, amongst the usual, expected comments on the post I linked to are a few interesting ones well worth digging out.

All that out of the way, the real reasons I posted the link is because there are two concerns:

• Motorsport is dangerous, we know that. But if the result is that we as the people who want to take our vehicles on the track lose access to the track because of cases like this making it impossible to get insurance, we're all screwed. (Cue the comments re the European court decision that all vehicles need to carry insurance even if they're never used on public roads). Uncertainty is not anybody's friend in this.
• We're talking about Laguna Seca, which has been under attack by locals for a long time now. I'm glad that the track and county are out of the lawsuit, but I can see any decision that's going against the trackday organizer as additional ammo for the people who really want the track shut down.

This Kim guy needs to stick to "riding" whatever the hell the crap he's peddling in his start up...

I was rooting for lit motors, but now this almost seems like he has run out of money and this is his path to recouping his investment as his startup implodes

I really must get around to these some day. 

I've said it before on here but it took years for the courts to prove the kid that Kalle Grundel sent flying off his RS200 knew there was a rally going on at the time and was lying about ignorance of said event. 

I watched the video and all I have to say is "whaaaaat a Douche" 

A. His knee must be two feet of the ground he's barely leaned over. 

B. You're  on Ducati Panagale how the Ffff did you manage to blow it so badly.

C. To quote what Eddie Lawson said about amateur riders "you're not going fast enough to crash"

D. You broke your femur, while it sucks it's not like you were paralyzed from the neck down.

The hardest part for me was reading the guy was 10 seconds a lap slower than a mid-pack 600 national rider on a bike that should be 6-8 seconds a lap faster. So basically he crashed on a lap run at cool down lap pace.

I would have wanted the sand bags removed but the video also makes it clear the rider was rapidly loosing control before he even arrived at the sand bags. To me it looked like he was in the middle of crashing and the sand bags just speed up the process.

The scary thing out of all this is the fact that a jury with no knowledge of motorcycles or the track environment might rule in Mr Kim's favor. They might also assume that anyone who rides a motorcycle as fast as they can around a track has a death wish and should be happy there even still alive.  

My thoughts after watching that clip, keeping in mind I’ve never run Laguna Seca, so I’m unfamiliar with that corner.

(1) It is a little weird to see rows of sandbags arranged transversely at track out. Probably wouldn’t be a problem in a car, but I can see that being an issue on a bike. Then again, it looks like the corner is wide and flat enough that you shouldn’t have any trouble keeping it on the track surface. 

(2) It certainly looks safer to go off there than Turn 1 at Tremblant, where you’ll end up in a creek. Or the entrance to the Boot at Watkins Glen, where you have 2 feet of runoff before you hit a dirt berm. Or pretty much anywhere at Summit Point, where they’d need a crane to fish you out of the trees. 

(3) It’s up to you as a driver to plan your “exit strategy” for each corner in the event that something goes wrong. Some corners are OK to straighten out and go off. Others aren’t, so you know you’ll need to keep it in. You’ve got to figure that out ahead of time.

(4) I don’t think it’s productive to talk about how fast/slow he was riding or how he should have done better given how good his bike is. From what I gather, this is the bike version of an HPDE. We’ve all seen Corvettes get passed by Miatas in an HPDE setting. You’re there to learn and everyone should be running their own pace. 

Tom1200 said:

The scary thing out of all this is the fact that a jury with no knowledge of motorcycles or the track environment might rule in Mr Kim's favor. They might also assume that anyone who rides a motorcycle as fast as they can around a track has a death wish and should be happy there even still alive.  

You can bet money that the plaintiff won't allow anyone on the jury that rides, and especially not if they've ever done trackdays or racing...

I did MC trackdays monthly for about 5 years.  If you go off the pavement, odds are you're going down...  the results are never predictable.  Anyone with half a brain figures it out, and either makes peace with it, or takes their toys and goes home.

Given where the lawsuit will be heard, I don't have high hopes...  these are the courts that give us the 9th Circus justices... 

I’ll also add that this mindset is something I hate about America.

You chose to participate in an inherently high-risk activity because “look at me, Instagram!” But when you screw up and hurt yourself, now you run crying to mommy because “that mean boy was mean to me!” Then your dad asks his dad for 13 million dollars. 

418NV said:

This Kim guy needs to stick to "riding" whatever the hell the crap he's peddling in his start up...

 

I looked at the same trash  and thought to myself "someone with a bunk-ass start up peddling a vaporware pod-bike in need of cash, and suddenly yardsales it at Laguna seca...." I'd put real money on this asshat suing to get a quick cash injection. 

The crash was some time ago AFAIK, so I don't think he crashed on purpose but I think the realization of what he could get from the lawsuit I feel like is probably tied to his business

It seems to me like the guy ran out of talent and doesn't wanna own up to that.

In reply to Jaynen :

Yeah. That's more of what I meant. I definitely don't think he crashed on purpose,  but he's definitely using it  

LanEvo said:

My thoughts after watching that clip, keeping in mind I’ve never run Laguna Seca, so I’m unfamiliar with that corner.

(1) It is a little weird to see rows of sandbags arranged transversely at track out. Probably wouldn’t be a problem in a car, but I can see that being an issue on a bike. Then again, it looks like the corner is wide and flat enough that you shouldn’t have any trouble keeping it on the track surface. 

Hitting the sandbag in a bike clearly would be unpleasant. That said (I've been to Laguna Seca during the time when they have the sandbags out), the normal oh-E36 M3 line would put you a bit higher uphill. It's a pretty wide corner, but you're also coming into it pretty fast and have to get the apex right. But even if you don't, people tend to run out of track higher up and exit the track at much less of an angle.

(2) It certainly looks safer to go off there than Turn 1 at Tremblant, where you’ll end up in a creek. Or the entrance to the Boot at Watkins Glen, where you have 2 feet of runoff before you hit a dirt berm. Or pretty much anywhere at Summit Point, where they’d need a crane to fish you out of the trees. 

IMHO it's one of the safer places to go for an off-track excursion - not like the corkscrew, where you come barreling up the hill, don't see anything until it's basically time to turn and you're headed for a concrete wall (albeit with some kitty litter).

(3) It’s up to you as a driver to plan your “exit strategy” for each corner in the event that something goes wrong. Some corners are OK to straighten out and go off. Others aren’t, so you know you’ll need to keep it in. You’ve got to figure that out ahead of time.

Indeed. That's more or less what "the" Keith Code (of California Superbike School fame) said in his comment.

(4) I don’t think it’s productive to talk about how fast/slow he was riding or how he should have done better given how good his bike is. From what I gather, this is the bike version of an HPDE. We’ve all seen Corvettes get passed by Miatas in an HPDE setting. You’re there to learn and everyone should be running their own pace. 

Agreed.

He's a Silicon Valley Scumbag who wants everyone else to pay his bills. I hope the case gets tossed and he gets stuck with 100% of the expensive lawyer bills for both sides.