Electronic Boost Controller

Is there any reason to run one?

The reason I ask is that the rally talon has one. Not wanting to screw with anything as it runs sooooo good, I left it in the car for it's first event. About 1/2 way through the day, the car started randomly cutting from 21psi to 10psi when I was flat out at 160km/h in 5th (it really confused the E36 M3 out of me). Rapidly lifting and reapplying the throttle got my boost back, but it did this on and off throughout the day. Obviously, the maximum boost parameter is meeting the overboost setting (and the overboost LED would flash).

Rather than deal with the oldazz HKS ebc, should I just remove it and install a normal manual boost controller? I've heard that an EBC can cause additional issues like spiking, increase lag, etc, all really terrible things. Or is there a reason I should keep the EBC?

A GOOD properly set up EBC has advantages over a run of the mill ball/spring MBC.

Boost by gear, set gain to tame an insane spool or to speed up a lazy one, built in overboost protection, etc etc etc...

If you're having problems with yours and don't want to deal with it, considering it's a rally car and on the boil pretty often, a good MBC wouldn't be bad at all. Grimmspeed makes my favorite MBC. It's not cheap ($100), but it's a work of art.

If you want to simplify your setup but still have in-cabin control, i have an EE-Enhanced EBC V1.0.

It's pretty much a toggle switch for "ON" (user set boost level) and "OFF" (wastegate pressure) with a knob for boost level adjustment.

I would be interested in trading it for the oldazz HKS ebc, especially if it's an HKS EVC1 or HKS EVC2.

Oddly enough, I think there was an article on EBCs vs MBCs out a while ago...

A ball valve type MBC isn't bad - you may have a bit of overshoot or cases of the boost changing slightly with the weather, but they can still get pretty good results.

92CelicaHalfTrac has outlined the advantages of a correctly set up EBC. Trouble is, some of them aren't easy to set up.

MadScientistMatt wrote: Oddly enough, I think there was an article on EBCs vs MBCs out a while ago... A ball valve type MBC isn't bad - you may have a bit of overshoot or cases of the boost changing slightly with the weather, but they can still get pretty good results. 92CelicaHalfTrac has outlined the advantages of a correctly set up EBC. Trouble is, some of them aren't easy to set up.

Also see: Why i sold my Greddy Profec B Spec II. SCREW that thing.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I would be interested in trading it for the oldazz HKS ebc, especially if it's an HKS EVC1 or HKS EVC2.

Pretty sure it is a EVC1, and yes, trades are good.

What I need out of it is maximum/earliest spool possible. Spiking is not a problem (as long as I can keep it below 25psi, we're talking a Talon on pump gas afterall) and that it will hold ~21psi without disturbing the force. Minor variances in overall boost is fine, it's easy enough to adjust during recce for the event. The turbo shouldn't overspin itself (cross fingers) to get 21psi going from an altitude of 4000feet to 6000feet...

HiTempguy wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I would be interested in trading it for the oldazz HKS ebc, especially if it's an HKS EVC1 or HKS EVC2.

Pretty sure it is a EVC1, and yes, trades are good. What I need out of it is maximum/earliest spool possible. Spiking is not a problem (as long as I can keep it below 25psi, we're talking a Talon on pump gas afterall) and that it will hold ~21psi without disturbing the force. Minor variances in overall boost is fine, it's easy enough to adjust during recce for the event. The turbo shouldn't overspin itself (cross fingers) to get 21psi going from an altitude of 4000feet to 6000feet...

Well to be honest... if it's an EVC1, it's pretty much the simplest EBC you can find. I don't think there's a "volume" or "Gain" knob on that one.

Get some pics up, and i'll dig mine out this weekend and post some pics as well. I'd be very interested in a trade merely to compliment my oldazz HKS collection.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Also see: Why i sold my Greddy Profec B Spec II. SCREW that thing.

I hear you. We once tried tuning an RX-7 with a Profec boost controller. Could not get the same amount of boost from one pull to the next. Some people swear by them, but it seems like setting them up takes a special touch that not everyone has.

The old Profecs with a bunch of knobs, i can do. The Profec A with the "fuzzy boost control" logic, i could do.

The Spec II was just... awful. It didn't help that it used different units of measurement for each setting, either. I had math equations that i put together to help me tune this thing. It was horrible.

Could your electronic boost controller be monitoring for knock and pulling boost because of it?

Speaking of boost controllers...

I'm putting a Scion (Toyota) 1NZFE in Dr.Linda's Europa. Plus a T25 turbo. I have the manifold and turbo. Turbo needs a rebuild, but that's still in the future. I'm planning on MegaSquirting this and using a wide band O2 sensor. Stock HP is about 110-ish, compression is about 11:1, 1.5L. Rods are not 3SGTE strong by any means, and my goal is about 160-ish HP, which is about what the TRD kit does with a similar setup. What am I going to need to control the boost? Something between the MS and the waste gate? Just fiddle with the waste gate? My MS experience is with MS1 SnS on 3 NA vehicles.

I'm open for suggestions.

Dr. Hess wrote: Could your electronic boost controller be monitoring for knock and pulling boost because of it? Speaking of boost controllers... I'm putting a Scion (Toyota) 1NZFE in Dr.Linda's Europa. Plus a T25 turbo. I have the manifold and turbo. Turbo needs a rebuild, but that's still in the future. I'm planning on MegaSquirting this and using a wide band O2 sensor. Stock HP is about 110-ish, compression is about 11:1, 1.5L. Rods are not 3SGTE strong by any means, and my goal is about 160-ish HP, which is about what the TRD kit does with a similar setup. What am I going to need to control the boost? Something between the MS and the waste gate? Just fiddle with the waste gate? My MS experience is with MS1 SnS on 3 NA vehicles. I'm open for suggestions.

The old HKS EVCs don't have knock monitoring built in.

As for your situation, i believe there's a boost control kit for MS, think DIYAutotune has it. It's just a solenoid controlled by MS.

Alternatively if you don't want to mess with that stuff, set it via manual boost controller and tune for that.

"Volume" and "gain".... I want boost control not a friggin stereo. I hate that spec 2 thing and cannot wait to finish setting up new ecu and put that thing to the CURB.

but you want some manner of hopefully simple EBC if you want max early spool at varying altitudes. MBC doesn't do well with alt. changes really.

I think i sold my Spec II for $100 or something. It still retails for over $400.

you could put a restrictor in the wastegate line to slow the wastegate opening/closing for faster spool like the mx6 GT had stock, and run a ball and spring valve MBC, or i built a bleed valve that bled back into the pcv line ahead of the turbo to stop the intake of unmetered air. cost of parts was around $10 at the time, and it was rock solid.

Dr. Hess wrote: Could your electronic boost controller be monitoring for knock and pulling boost because of it? Speaking of boost controllers... I'm putting a Scion (Toyota) 1NZFE in Dr.Linda's Europa. Plus a T25 turbo. I have the manifold and turbo. Turbo needs a rebuild, but that's still in the future. I'm planning on MegaSquirting this and using a wide band O2 sensor. Stock HP is about 110-ish, compression is about 11:1, 1.5L. Rods are not 3SGTE strong by any means, and my goal is about 160-ish HP, which is about what the TRD kit does with a similar setup. What am I going to need to control the boost? Something between the MS and the waste gate? Just fiddle with the waste gate? My MS experience is with MS1 SnS on 3 NA vehicles. I'm open for suggestions.

Yes, the MS can control a solenoid on the wastegate with the right mods. The MS1 can do open loop but its closed loop is tough to tune; the MS2 and later have a pretty straightforward closed loop option as well as open loop.

Dr. Hess wrote: Could your electronic boost controller be monitoring for knock and pulling boost because of it? Speaking of boost controllers... I'm putting a Scion (Toyota) 1NZFE in Dr.Linda's Europa. Plus a T25 turbo. I have the manifold and turbo. Turbo needs a rebuild, but that's still in the future. I'm planning on MegaSquirting this and using a wide band O2 sensor. Stock HP is about 110-ish, compression is about 11:1, 1.5L. Rods are not 3SGTE strong by any means, and my goal is about 160-ish HP, which is about what the TRD kit does with a similar setup. What am I going to need to control the boost? Something between the MS and the waste gate? Just fiddle with the waste gate? My MS experience is with MS1 SnS on 3 NA vehicles. I'm open for suggestions.

Spring for an MS2 (or if you REALLY want to fiddle with stuff, MS3) and run an EBC solenoid from the ECU. You can do it with MS1-Extra, but it's worth going to MS2 for the closed-loop boost control. If you're going to be setting up a Megasquirt on a boosted car anywhere there's no reason to run a separate setup just for EBC. You'll be able to log the EBC control data along with the rest of the MS data as well, which will make adjusting the response a lot easier. Otherwise you'll be looking at MAP in Megasquirt logs trying to figure out exactly what the EBC was trying to do.

I don't think my manual ball/spring boost controller is working anymore. That or somebody cranked it up. I've seen over 20 psi on various romps, and I thought I had it limited to around 15 psi. I'm not too worried, since my map goes pig rich at high boost, but at some point I could run out of injector.

Another nice safety feature is the intercooler plumbing. A couple months ago I was getting frisky with it and it blew a rubber elbow off the intercooler. Pretty good trick since the clamp was pretty tight. That was interesting.

Now that I think of it, I might be in the market for an EBC. Are they any more reliable than MBC's? I doubt it.

Sounds like I'll be going MS2, WBO, and the control valve. It will be a few months yet, Matt. I'm still attaching the body to the frame. I'd also like that gizmo that tells you what % of boom your fuel has so you can run E85. Not sure the rods can handle more than about 160 HP, though.

So, what is the absolute BEST electronic boost controller I can get? The more I read, the more it seems I'll be able to spool quicker with one.

HiTempguy wrote: So, what is the absolute BEST electronic boost controller I can get? The more I read, the more it seems I'll be able to spool quicker with one.

Probably the most expensive HKS you can find.

It'll be a E36 M3load harder to use than your EVC1 if that's what you've got, though.

If you want something that's easy to use but still performs very well, i'd be looking at the Gizzmo "box" boost controllers, the Go Fast Bits G-Force, or maybe the Turbosmart "box" controller.

Stay away from anything Greddy. Apexi AVCRs are supposed to be good, but look even more complicated than the Greddys.

I have no experience with the Blitz offerings.

Anyone try one of the AEM tru-boost units? I have no experience with them, but from the manual it doesn't look hard to set up and an EBC integrated into a boost gauge sounds like a pretty slick idea.