Encouraging / Helping a 15 year old with a first car project

Backstory...

Due to some complicated family history, my wife's cousin was raised by my wife's mom, and is more or less an older sister to her. She's your typical broke hard luck single mom, underpaid, overworked, and deadbeat ex-husband.

Regardless of her situation, her son is approaching 15, good kid, and really wants to do some kind of car project with me. He's struggled with book smarts (has some learning disorder), but has kept his nose clean. He's enrolling in the trades school portion of the regional high schools, and has some interest in how things bolt together, and I hope it will be a good fit for him.

Unlike alot of spoiled kids out there, the parent buying a fancy car option isn't on the table. Mom does think she could kick in $1,000~$1,500 after tax returns this spring, and I'm considering tossing a few bucks in as well.

So, in a way this is a "what car" thread, but also a... "what's the best way to go about this" thread. I don't mind throwing a few bucks in, but I'd like to see him find a way to "earn" it as well... i.e. get his own part time job and I'd match funds, or trade work, etc. I'm not going to just build him something and give it to him.

Since he won't have his license for awhile, rather than just buying a runner, I'm considering helping him buy something that needs put together (bad motor / needs clutch / etc.) junkyard and GRM style. He has little to no interest in hatchbacks or econobox stuff (thinks my VW's are lame...), but I want his first car to be somewhat reasonable on gas so it won't kill his wallet, and also because his dad lives 2+ hours away (mom currently drives him back and forth). Trucks are "cool" as well as most V8 cars (bad fit for rookie driver).

I'm thinking one of two things... 1) Get a decent car that he could dream of engine swapping when he's older. 2) Put a cool 4-banger / V6 truck together. We're in Michigan so snow/4x4 might be the better option (though I DD'd a rwd S-10 when I was a teenager)

Thoughts/Opinions welcome.

Suggest he can earn a contribution from you by helping with your car even though it's a lame VW. Start with changing the oil and so forth. Buy him a set of tools if he shows continued interest. Let him know that how he takes care of the tools reflects on his future ability to take care of a vehicle. Mom could probably use a break on car maint costs. Let the guy work on her car with your supervision. don't make it easy, don't make it hard. If he shows interest and works hard then find an appropriate vehicle that needs some work but isn't a complete basket case. I don't think someone that age can expected to want to take on a full restoration, but you can expect them to buy something cheap with a lot of deferred maint.

All the young guys I talk to I recommend that they get two cars, one to drive and one to mess with. Nothing worse than missing school/work because you didn't get the car back together last night.

slefain wrote: All the young guys I talk to I recommend that they get two cars, one to drive and one to mess with. Nothing worse than missing school/work because you didn't get the car back together last night.

This, buy $600 Geo prizm, danger ranger, S10, or whatever, then use remaining funds for project car. Neat project cars, especially if you want 70s on back to WW2 or so, often pop up cheap on the Detroit Metro CL. I once passed up a solid, running, yard drivable, 1938 Buick for $800.

4cyl e30? Could probably find one that needs a clutch.

+1 on sachilles' advice. Starting with basic maintenance is a good way to learn about cars. Make sure he enjoys the basic stuff before branching out into the more complex/frustrating stuff.

Trucks can be a good place to start, plenty of room to work on them, parts are usually pretty reasonable, and if things go bad, there's a frame and a lot of sheetmetal around you. Plus, they're very practical if you're considering one of the trades. Being right wheel drive with a light rear-end, they're also good for learning car control. I also drove a 2WD truck through college in upstate NY, it had better tires on the rear for the winter and I experimented with putting weight in the back. Having said that, I like the idea of a 4WD truck because there are some situations when 4WD would make a difference.

Two of my friends in high school had a dad who was a drag racer in the 70s. They each built a car in high school, one did a classic Mustang, and the other did a '56 F100 with a 428 CJ. Their dad helped them with the work, but a lot of it was their money, their sweat equity, etc. Both still have the cars they built:http://www.barillarospeed.net/about-us.html When my boys reach the same age, I'd like to do something similar, as it gave my friends a real appreciation for their cars.

Mike's Truck:

Jim's Car:

what a great thing to do. so many kids in his situration fall thru the cracks. i have a jeep cherokee sitting in Lynchburg Va. this truck has no rust at all. it has a 167k on it and needs a clutch it is a 4.0. i have it listed for $800.00 in the 2012 classifieds. if he wants it $400.00. i checked on shipping it would be about $500.00

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/200x-classifieds/2000-jeep-cherokee-sport-80000/56162/page1/

Mustang SVO? (Depending on what he considers a hatch)

Anyway, sounds like he'll have more money than me for a car, but i know how to budget and have fun toys. Really, i bet he's got a good ideas of what he wants.

Can't wait to work on cars with family members. I was like him. LD, ADHD, amd not good grades. Now I'm creating a good name for myself and am becoming a go-to guy. Keep him out of street racing.

Consider on going insurance costs- as well. I would be shocked if you can find a decent insurance deal for any car named Mustang.

But I do recall the pick ups are very reasonable to insure.

Maybe you can find something inbetween, but do have a friend that has an S10 that has been modified to drive a whole lot more fun.

One of my midnight insomnia ideas was an older F100'is body onto a Ranger chassis. No idea if it could be done, but it's an idea. Same for any GM product, as far as I'm concerned.

The key is to ask him more questions to find out what kind of car he would really like. I'm sure people here will be able to find that kind of car at a reasonable price/project stage.

Good luck!!

edit- as an extreme example of what I mean in finding A car- http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/cto/3351040612.html Lots and lots of work, but given the time and the want- can be done. I'm sure with time, ANY car can be found that you want.

I had a pretty sweet Ranger STX when I was 18. Real easy to work on and it had a nice 2.9 L V6.

I told my son early on I wasn't buying him a car after he totaled his mom's minivan. A friend of the family gave him a 86 T-Bird with a blown engine. He found a bought a $125 engine out of the paper and I helped him with the swap. It was a good experience for him. A little wrench time goes a long way toward teaching them how to care for things.

In reply to Toyman01:

I'm no father, but i plan on buying cheap cars for my kids, partially dissembling the engine and making them put it back together. Yep. A little wrench time does go a long way toward teaching care and respect to the kidlets.

Find out what he wants to do, what cars he likes, and then start. If you are not stuck for cash, you can insist that he pays a portion of everything, and then leave a check in the glovebox when you're finished as a savings account for gas money.

15 is old enough for Lemons racing, I think. That would be a great project, if a bit stressful.

I worry a bit that it's going to be too long from 'completed project' to 'kid driving car', so I would think about interesting ways to get him behind the wheel within a year or so. Maybe some race series which allows unlicensed underage drivers. There are a few.

Don't push him, but be supportive and patient. it's a good thing to do, and it sounds like the kid needs a father figure.

I have always thought that the Jeep CJ was ideal for this situation. The straight 6 is pretty reliable, and is a great platform to learn some basic motor repair skills. Access to the engine and underside and dash is easy, eliminating some of the cost and complexity of repairs and upgrades. Most things bolt off and on without the need to weld. You can start with basic oil changes and simple repairs, then build up to adding lights and upgrading seats, then move onto a V8 Swap and suspension lift. The hardest thing for kids to master is body repair and painting, but with a CJ, you can swap in a fiberglass body, weld in patches, or swap in diamond plate. The CJ can also become a great weekend toy when he moves on to a newer DD.

@Tuna: I think Lemons requires a real driver's license, so 16 is the bottom limit for that.

@Toyman: That's a great idea!! Too bad he had to total the minivan first to learn the lesson.

pinchvalve wrote: I have always thought that the Jeep CJ was ideal for this situation. The straight 6 is pretty reliable, and is a great platform to learn some basic motor repair skills. Access to the engine and underside and dash is easy, eliminating some of the cost and complexity of repairs and upgrades. Most things bolt off and on without the need to weld. You can start with basic oil changes and simple repairs, then build up to adding lights and upgrading seats, then move onto a V8 Swap and suspension lift. The hardest thing for kids to master is body repair and painting, but with a CJ, you can swap in a fiberglass body, weld in patches, or swap in diamond plate. The CJ can also become a great weekend toy when he moves on to a newer DD.

I thought about that as a 17yr old lad myself, but Dad told me how many windshields he's seen his buddy replace from rollovers. They're terrible things in a crash, which a 16 year old kid WILL get into, and often.

I'd say 1/2 ton truck instead, but if he hates them, it will suck too.

dculberson wrote: @Tuna: I think Lemons requires a real driver's license, so 16 is the bottom limit for that. @Toyman: That's a great idea!! Too bad he had to total the minivan first to learn the lesson.

Just looked, you're right. Grrr...

slefain wrote: All the young guys I talk to I recommend that they get two cars, one to drive and one to mess with.

Not really an option. He has no garage and limited driveway space as-is, plus complications of 16y.o. insurance and multiple vehicles. Need to keep things simple.

dj06482 wrote: +1 on sachilles' advice. Starting with basic maintenance is a good way to learn about cars. Make sure he enjoys the basic stuff before branching out into the more complex/frustrating stuff.

Agreed. Hadn't thought about him doing work on my own vehicles but that's not a bad thought. I also have alot of duplicate tools I could help get his own simple collection started.

cutter67 wrote: what a great thing to do. so many kids in his situration fall thru the cracks. i have a jeep cherokee sitting in Lynchburg Va...

Thanks! That's an awesome offer! That said, as others have noted, I don't want to jump the gun unless I know a Jeep is actually something he actually wants and thinks is cool. Plus, the road trip to get it would be fun to make part of the process. I'll send him some pics of modded Jeeps to gauge feedback.

You were talking insurance and in case you don't know, the bigger the vehicle, the more damage it can do, the higher the insurance. Keep that in mind.

N Sperlo wrote: You were talking insurance and in case you don't know, the bigger the vehicle, the more damage it can do, the higher the insurance. Keep that in mind.

Not sure if that applies in Michigan as much, as we're a no-fault state. i.e. cover your own @ss or you're out of luck.

Also when you want to justify buying that new tool, you can justify it by giving the old one to the kid.

My $0.02

Start with him working with you and your tools so he can learn the importance of good tool maintenance, safety and storage. "The tool goes back HERE when you are done". Do some simple projects together, oil change, valve adjustment, etc. so he can see the preparation, procedure and cleanup steps of a properly done project. Then find a non-running lawn mower on CL for next to nothing and let him fix it. Fuel, Air, Spark. Without these three things nothing runs. Let him use your tools. When he is done he can mow his Mom's lawn and make her happy and possibly make some $$ next summer.

If you feel like he can focus on this much then a car project is doable. Start a toolbox for tool duplicates and stop by some pawn shops for wrenches, sockets, etc. with him. I'd vote for an older, non-computer car to start with if possible. Easier to diagnose. If he is dead set on something new, find something that runs and drives now. It may overheat, drag a brake, etc. but you can fix those things.

I think you are doing something very admirable here and I really hope you can find a way to make it work.

I've done something like this and learned le$$ons, some good some less so.

FWIW, think about doing a flip together. Get something that needs repairs, is easy to work on, and could be flipped. Don't consider whether it's cool - it's a learning tool. The idea would be to let him learn on the uncool car, help with the work on it, and profit from the flip. Keep track of all expenses and let him keep the profit toward something he might like to drive himself. This will give you the chance to see how his interest holds, what his skills are, and he would learn the value of a buck. It could take two flips to make enough for something he wants, but that's fine because it sets a goal that he has a realistic chance of reaching.

id actually reccomend a late 80's to mid 90's chevy truck. long bed extended cab. plenty of room in the cab, longer wheelbase which makes it hard to get stupid with, parts are cheap, easy maintenace, and availible all day long with bad trannies on the 700r4. should be a good first truck, and cool with a drop and paintjob.

my first car was done something luike this. i had to keep my nose clean, b average, and dad bought the car for me. towed it home with my moms minivan. it was RWD, v8, 3 on the floor duster. he made me do all the work on it, and pay for all the parts. i learned almost every basic, and some advanced, mechanicing i kow from that car. it was slow enough with the ailing 318 and 3.23 that i didnt get into trouble, but fast enough and loud enough to make me feel like a hero. my dad, friends, and i spent many hours on that car, and i attrbute that experience to maiing me the man i am today.

i wish you the best experiences with this.

give him a budget, and set him loose on craigslist. make him find something he likes in his set budget, and then research what the ad says it needs and how much that would cost. make him factor that into his budget. (we ALL know it will need a whole lot more than the add states, but its what my dad did with me. only he said it had to be a stick becauuse he didnt understand autos, and had to be carb'd because he didnt understand EFI.) if it looks promising, go with hhim to look at it, make him honestly assess what all it will actua;;y need in addition to what the add stated, and research that as well. (if you know its the right deal, help him dfop this quickly, as the good ones go pretty quick)

michael

I think the main thing is to get a car in the nicest condition you can find for the money - worry about finding a particular make and model later on, use the first one as a project.