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irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/28/21 6:29 p.m.

So over this weekend, three datapoints that made me think of this:

1. My parents, who have owned minivans (mostly Chryslers) since they were popularized in the mid-80s, opined that they want a new one to replace their 8-year-old (ish) Town&Country, but they really want to buy an EV next, since most of their usage is well within 200 miles of home and short trips. They don't want an SUV, they like the huge interior and low step-up height of minivans (they're getting older, but still like to buy antique furniture and haul stuff).

2. My wife, who really doesn't like her CX-9 as it's turned out to be a mediocre utility/people-hauler as a 3-row SUV with virtually no space for anything other than passengers. She wanted a minivan when we got the CX-9 and still wants one. And 98% of her driving is within 50 miles of home (and we have the Sequoia for long-haul full-family trips anyhow).

3. My cousin, who wants a new minivan because only the "huge" SUVs have enough space for her family/dog on road trips and she doesn't want a suburban/sequoia/etc.

Also, the local elementary school pickup line is FULL of late-model Odysseys, Pacificas, and Siennas these days - which used to be mostly crossovers 5 years ago, so maybe minivans are getting trendy again for the soccer-mom set that mostly does local driving. Sales figures don't seen to support this, but we know how quickly trends change and I think a lot of people are learning that crossovers/SUVs really kind of suck at most of the day-to-day family-hauling chores compared to minivans. Or are the manufacturers intentionally trying to kill off minivans because of higher margins on overpriced station wagons with big wheels?

ANYHOW....out of curiosity I browsed and found....nothign. No EV minivans out there now, or even talked about for the future. This doesn't seem to make a ton of sense to me - the minvan would seem to be ideal for batteries since FWD so no driveshaft tunnel, and they seem mostly be for suburban use, so single-charge distances. So what gives? why aren't any of the manufacturers doing EV minivans? 

Theory:

The top three minivan companies would seem to be Honda, Toyota, and Chrysler. Honda is all-in on fuel-cell stuff it seems (which I think is a HUGE mistake, in my opinion), and seems to have missed the boat on EVs in general. Toyota has the tech but seems to want to stick with more hybrid stuff than pure EV from what I can tell. And Chrysler doesn't seem to be ready for EV yet other than throwing money into electric muscle cars or whatever (shocker). So maybe it's just that the companies that currently make minivans don't have the EV tech ready at this point, and the companies that are going all-in on EV tech (Euros, Ford, startups) generally don't currently make ICE minivans.

Anyhow, just a thought for discussion. 

 

MrChaos
MrChaos GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
11/28/21 6:49 p.m.

i mean chrysler has the pacifica plug in hybrid, the sienna is a traditional hybrid.  Toyota is also heavily on the hydrogen band wagon as well so i doubt they will have a true EV mini van soon.

 32 miles of full electric range  https://www.chrysler.com/pacifica/hybrid.html

 

The issue is the stigma of the mini van.  The SUV will be full EV first.

I think ford has an electric version of the Transit in the pipeline, but then again that is a full size van not a mini van.

I would imagine part of it is the fact that minivans aren't "exciting" or "sexy" enough of a market for EVs.  
Yet.

84FSP
84FSP UltraDork
11/28/21 6:52 p.m.

A colleague has liked their Pacifica plug in hyrbrid.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
11/28/21 6:52 p.m.

You have a very legitimate point, and I have nothing to add, other than totally agreeing that a minivan would be a perfect platform for an ev.

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/28/21 6:59 p.m.
MrChaos said:

i mean chrysler has the pacifica plug in hybrid, the sienna is a traditional hybrid.  Toyota is also heavily on the hydrogen band wagon as well so i doubt they will have a true EV mini van soon.

 32 miles of full electric range  https://www.chrysler.com/pacifica/hybrid.html

 

The issue is the stigma of the mini van.  The SUV will be full EV first.

I think ford has an electric version of the Transit in the pipeline, but then again that is a full size van not a mini van.

yeah didn't realize there was a plug-in Pacifica. Interesting. Now if they weren't $50k+ :/

 

I do hope hydrogen takes off, as I have a few investments in companies that produce it for fuel cell use....and those stocks are currently my worst performers, so apparently the market doesn't have much confidence in hydrogen ATM..e

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
11/28/21 6:59 p.m.

All new Toyota Siennas are hybrid.  I know that's not EV, and I agree, there should be EV minivans, but it's halfway there. 

My other answer is the manufacturers no longer seem shy to place a real premium price on minivans 

Rated for 36 mpg in both hyw and city

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/28/21 7:03 p.m.

Yeah, I know there are hybrids, but honestly I'm not really that interested in those (for my wife) at this point. The whole point of going EV is to avoid dealing with the ICE component, as in our application the vehicle woudl rarely need to use the gas engine. 

Guess I'll wait a few years and see what comes out, and SWMBO can keep pretending she's annoyed I bought her the CX-9 and not the minivan she retroactively says she "really wanted" 4 years ago lol....

GTwannaB
GTwannaB GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/28/21 7:20 p.m.

VW is supposed to be committed to EV Microbus, but who knows untiL it drops. 
 

https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/id-buzz-microbus

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UltraDork
11/28/21 7:20 p.m.

VW will have the retro Minivan in the next year or 2  ,  I am just not sure how the styling will hold up  in a few years or if it will be like the PT Cruiser  :)

MrChaos
MrChaos GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
11/28/21 7:23 p.m.
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:
MrChaos said:

i mean chrysler has the pacifica plug in hybrid, the sienna is a traditional hybrid.  Toyota is also heavily on the hydrogen band wagon as well so i doubt they will have a true EV mini van soon.

 32 miles of full electric range  https://www.chrysler.com/pacifica/hybrid.html

 

The issue is the stigma of the mini van.  The SUV will be full EV first.

I think ford has an electric version of the Transit in the pipeline, but then again that is a full size van not a mini van.

yeah didn't realize there was a plug-in Pacifica. Interesting. Now if they weren't $50k+ :/

they start at $45k cheeky but they are loaded.

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/28/21 7:23 p.m.
californiamilleghia said:

VW will have the retro Minivan in the next year or 2  ,  I am just not sure how the styling will hold up  in a few years or if it will be like the PT Cruiser  :)

based on how "meh" the Routan was, will be interested to see if, in a practical sense, the retro-van will match up with the non-retro ones. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/28/21 7:28 p.m.
GTwannaB said:

VW is supposed to be committed to EV Microbus, but who knows untiL it drops. 
 

https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/id-buzz-microbus

The reborn VW van is the fusion power of automobiles. It's always just around the corner...

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/28/21 7:32 p.m.
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:
MrChaos said:

i mean chrysler has the pacifica plug in hybrid, the sienna is a traditional hybrid.  Toyota is also heavily on the hydrogen band wagon as well so i doubt they will have a true EV mini van soon.

 32 miles of full electric range  https://www.chrysler.com/pacifica/hybrid.html

 

The issue is the stigma of the mini van.  The SUV will be full EV first.

I think ford has an electric version of the Transit in the pipeline, but then again that is a full size van not a mini van.

yeah didn't realize there was a plug-in Pacifica. Interesting. Now if they weren't $50k+ :/

 

I do hope hydrogen takes off, as I have a few investments in companies that produce it for fuel cell use....and those stocks are currently my worst performers, so apparently the market doesn't have much confidence in hydrogen ATM..e

I believe the reason you see an emphasis on H2-based vehicles instead of EVs from Japan is the Japanese government pushing it hard. There are some real infrastructure problems in the US, though, including refueling speed for multiple vehicles. There are a lot of concerns about the ability of our electrical grid to handle a huge number of EVs, but at least we HAVE one :)

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/28/21 8:48 p.m.

Minivans killed the station wagon because their parents drove wagons.

"Crossovers" are killing the minivans because their parents drove minivans.

(shiny happy mode: on)

I have been informed multiple times that the difference between a doll and an action figure is that one has a sliding side door and one has a hinged door, so I assume that the benefit of a crossover is that the kids can swing the doors out full-force, as enthusiastic kids tend to do (hey, we've all been kids, we know what we were like) and put righteously huge door dings/dents in the vehicle parked next to them.  As such, for personal safety, it is best to assume that anybody in a crossover wishes to destroy your property...

MrChaos
MrChaos GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
11/28/21 8:49 p.m.
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:
californiamilleghia said:

VW will have the retro Minivan in the next year or 2  ,  I am just not sure how the styling will hold up  in a few years or if it will be like the PT Cruiser  :)

based on how "meh" the Routan was, will be interested to see if, in a practical sense, the retro-van will match up with the non-retro ones. 

I mean the Routan was just a badge job. It was just a 5th gen Town & Country/Grand Caravan

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/28/21 8:51 p.m.
MrChaos said:
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:
californiamilleghia said:

VW will have the retro Minivan in the next year or 2  ,  I am just not sure how the styling will hold up  in a few years or if it will be like the PT Cruiser  :)

based on how "meh" the Routan was, will be interested to see if, in a practical sense, the retro-van will match up with the non-retro ones. 

I mean the Routan was just a badge job. It was just a 5th gen Town & Country/Grand Caravan

It was much more than that!

It was a Town & Country with outrageously marked up parts prices.

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/28/21 8:53 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

 

 kids can swing the doors out full-force, as enthusiastic kids tend to do (hey, we've all been kids, we know what we were like) and put righteously huge door dings/dents in the vehicle parked next to them.

my car insurance company can verify this scenario, as the gigantic second-row door on SWMBO's CX-9 was opened and caught by a gust of wind, putting a large dent in the car next to hers. 

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/28/21 8:58 p.m.
MrChaos said:
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:
californiamilleghia said:

VW will have the retro Minivan in the next year or 2  ,  I am just not sure how the styling will hold up  in a few years or if it will be like the PT Cruiser  :)

based on how "meh" the Routan was, will be interested to see if, in a practical sense, the retro-van will match up with the non-retro ones. 

I mean the Routan was just a badge job. It was just a 5th gen Town & Country/Grand Caravan

I did not know that. I remember just reading a bunch of bad reviews about it at the time (while I assume the Caravan line got reasonable reviews after so many years in production), so figured it was some kind of Passat derivative or something. Learn something new every day. Guess the bad reviews were more about price 

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter)
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/28/21 9:42 p.m.
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

yeah didn't realize there was a plug-in Pacifica. Interesting. Now if they weren't $50k+ :/

They qualify for the full $7500 federal EV rebate, though.

dj06482 (Forum Supporter)
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
11/28/21 10:49 p.m.

I think the tough thing with a full EV is range - minivans get taken on long road trips a lot. I couldn't justify spending $50k for a full EV minivan that would struggle to make a long trip (we make the trek from CT to FL and back to CT pretty frequently).  

A hybrid would be great, and I'd love a plug-in option for in-town driving. If I were looking new right now, the hybrid Sienna and Pacifica would be at the top of my list.  However, we bought our '17 Odyssey for about 1/4 of what either of those goes for new, so I realistically won't be shopping the new market anytime soon.

dps214
dps214 Dork
11/28/21 11:05 p.m.

There's got to be a good reason, Ford has commercial and passenger versions of the f150 lightning but only commercial versions of the e-transit.

Use case is probably a big one, vans are probably see the biggest range of driving conditions. I'd also think that with all the emphasis on interior volume and things like fold flat seats and having a ton of equipment packed into the backseat area, there might just not be any space for big batteries.

On a logistical note, I'm pretty sure all the vans are currently built of off car platforms, and the hybrid versions are already seriously pushing the load capacities of the chassis and suspensions. Going to full electric with the extra battery weight might push them over the edge of having to totally reengineer the vehicles.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/28/21 11:07 p.m.
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:
MrChaos said:

i mean chrysler has the pacifica plug in hybrid, the sienna is a traditional hybrid.  Toyota is also heavily on the hydrogen band wagon as well so i doubt they will have a true EV mini van soon.

 32 miles of full electric range  https://www.chrysler.com/pacifica/hybrid.html

 

The issue is the stigma of the mini van.  The SUV will be full EV first.

I think ford has an electric version of the Transit in the pipeline, but then again that is a full size van not a mini van.

yeah didn't realize there was a plug-in Pacifica. Interesting. Now if they weren't $50k+ :/

 

I do hope hydrogen takes off, as I have a few investments in companies that produce it for fuel cell use....and those stocks are currently my worst performers, so apparently the market doesn't have much confidence in hydrogen ATM..e

There was a tax rebate from the feds of $7500 for them and some states added $2500 on top.  Making it effectively $10k less, so still expensive but more reasonable.

We love ours, it's been an awesome family rig and it's surprisingly quick for a minivan.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/28/21 11:11 p.m.

In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :

Yup, ours has a 35 mile range on full electric and with the ICE it has a 500 mile range.

For my wife's new commute, she still has charge when she gets home.  Her old commute only last about 3/4 of the round trip.  Either way, it gets charged at home or at a charge point if we're out and about.  Pretty nice since those spots are often some of the better spots to park.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/28/21 11:13 p.m.

The closest you're going to get right now is the Tesla X-type, but that's not a minivan, but the rear doors go up instead of out.

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