Excellent handling commuter car?

Yup, its another "What car" thread , my turn to be looking into something in the next few months. I've gotten tired of being extremely practical about my daily drivers, and cheaping out on the "fun" car. This mainly leads to fun cars that aren't so fun, since they spend most of their lives torn apart in the garage. I currently drive a Grand Marquis, my commute is 5 miles of two lane curvy road with a significant elevation change. Not the most appropriate combo. Of course, I work in IT, so my commute could change any minute, but I still want something a bit more "engaging" to drive.

I'm actually looking into three different price ranges. About 3-4K, which I should be able to cover in cash in a couple of months. Up to about 12-13K for a newer used car, and a short loan. Finally, up to about 25K for a new car (but preferably less). I'm looking for something that's pretty much the polar opposite of the big Merc, except for wanting to have something I can hop in and drive, without being worried about whether I'll make it where I'm going. No more total beaters. On the used cars, its alright if they need a bit of aftermarket suspension work and fresh tires in order to be great handlers. If something gets bought new, it'll probably stay stock at least through the warranty period. Oh yeah, also if its new, it'll probably need some form of auto transmission. It's been about 4-5 years since I've driven a stick with any regularity, and never daily driven one. I don't want to relearn on a new car.

Would love opinions on the cars listed below, and if you think I missed anything, let me know. Please keep in mind, I live in the salt-drenched state of Ohio, so a lot of older stuff has terminal rust.

3-4K used cars:

Ford Focus ZX3 - Seems a good choice, light with acceptable power, and still has an aftermarket. Don't see as many of them around as I used to, though.

Honda Civic Hatch (EF, EG, EK) - hard to find non-rusty examples around here.

Acura Integra Hatch - Rust and ricing have done a number on these around here.

NA Miata - The good ones tend to be pricey here, might find a rust free one in this price range.

Hyundai Accent - Is there enough aftermarket to make these things turn on a dime?

Up to $13K used cars

NB Miata - should be able to find a good one here

1999-up Toyota Celica - seems like a "safe" choice. Do they still have a good aftermarket?

MR2 Spyder - the most "hard core" car I could come up with. I hear they make Miatas seem plush.

2004 Pontiac GTO - Bit of a dark horse, more interested in handling than straight line speed, but these intrigue me. Its also a lot bigger than I'd like.

EP3 Civic Si - Not a fan of the looks, but if it can be made into a good handler, might be willing to accept it.

New Cars

Fiat 500 - Hopefully will get to sit in one of these at the new car show in February. Anyone got any experience with these yet? Any aftermarket suspension upgrades to be released the same time as the car? Might be willing to mod it if it doesn't lose the warranty.

MINI Cooper - Seems like one of most "go kart" vehicles available. Not sure I want to deal with the dealership and BMW service prices, though. No idea if the Aisin trans is any better than the early CVTs

Mazda2 - The bargain proposition. However, an auto tied to a 100 HP 4 banger might be too much of a dog.

Ford Fiesta Hatch DSG - Could be fun, but I keep reading they watered down the handling too much for the US Spec model.

Honda CR-Z - Probably not, but hey, it's in the price range, and the GRM comparo shows it has some potential, with decent tires.

NC Miata with the paddle shifters - I know its sacrilege, but I heard it's actually a pretty nice setup.

VW GTI DSG - Bigger and more expensive than almost everything else I'm looking at (how sad is that?), but for some reason I like it (except the hideous wheels). Probably a fantasy, as I'm not sure I want to deal with german engineering and VW dealerships.

So, any opinions on these cars, or anything I may have missed? As you may have noticed, most of the cars I want a pretty small. All I usually need to carry is a laptop bag and my lunch. For the used cars, any suspension work they need would have to be something that could be done in a driveway over a weekend. The last thing I want is something that needs lots of work from the get go, and then constant tweaking.

You forgot the Acura RSX Type-S

In reply to DaveEstey:

Good point. I've test driven a used 2004 base model before (almost got it instead of my wife's Mazda6 back in 08), and I just saw a 2002-04 S on an Acura lot for a little under $10K. Are the 05-06 models finally coming down into reasonable price ranges?

How about a ~2 year old cobalt ss turbo? They are a great handling car.

Mazda Protege or Mazda3

/thread

Javelin wrote: Mazda Protege or Mazda3 /thread

Driven Protege, Protege5, and a 3. Like 'em all. Read on here they aren't fun to work on though. Anything used will likely be maintained by me. Doesn't put them out of the running, just farther down.

Oh yeah, being as this is supposed to be a more fun car, I'm also hoping to avoid 4 doors. I'd prefer to skip 5 door hatches, but for some reason they are bit more acceptable to me. Sports cars, coupes, and three doors are at the top. And no more freaking silver cars. Last three dailys have been silver, because thats what happened to be available...

The GTO sounds like a winner to me. RWD, LS powered, and can be made to handle reasonably well. I'm not a GM lover by any means, but I wouldn't kick a GTO out of the garage even with an auto trans.

Despite my screename Honda fits can be pretty fun!

Two cars I love are on that list the Civic (EG or EK). I prefer coupes and I prefer the EG. And I want to replace my EG with a Fiat 500 someday.

3 series BMW.

When my new accent was still stock, I thought my fiance's stock 2003 Focus ZX5 sport definately handled better. Slow with a slushbox, but still fun to toss around turns, Iiked the steering feedback more as well.

If you ever need to carry a larger item of sorts, a hatchback with fold down seats is pretty handy. If you have a miata that can be a pain in the ass but...miata is also an awesome commuter car so don't rule it out. I got 30+mpg in mine every day and I wasnt feather footing it.

The Fiesta handles very well and there are already after market parts available.

Javelin wrote: Mazda Protege or Mazda3 /thread

Bingo!

I have an 05 Focus ZX-3, which I purchased about seven months ago. The cool thing about the 00-05 Focus sedans and ZX-3s is that you can purchase SVT shocks, struts and springs (the struts are even preassembled and include new strut bearings, etc.) for about $275 online from Tousley Ford.

This is a very nice, streetable set-up that improves the handling, but still retains all of the comfort.

And ... just get something with a manual transmission. Life it too short for automatics.

In reply to eastsidemav:

They're getting there. You're better off buying one of an enthusiast than from a dealership.

clubrsx.com is a good resource.

If you give up on the auto, you can add an S2000 to your second list. An RX8 might also fit your criteria, and they did make it with an auto. However, the mileage and insurance make that car much more expensive to own, and that engine really doesn't want to be attached to an automatic.

JohnW wrote: The cool thing about the 00-05 Focus sedans and ZX-3s is that you can purchase SVT shocks, struts and springs (the struts are even preassembled and include new strut bearings, etc.) for about $275 online from Tousley Ford. This is a very nice, streetable set-up that improves the handling, but still retains all of the comfort.

Fact. You can also add the FSVT RSB (+1mm) for about $40. 2004 and 2005 also offered the 2.3 (like the Mz3). The 2.3 out-torques the FSVT Zetec and only gives up about 20 HP at the top end...so you end up with similar performance. ...and the 2.3 takes to some aftermarket basics quite well.

As for the auto vs.manual... www.learnstickshift.com downloadable course.

what.. no BMWs on that list?

In reply to Everyone:

The cars on the first two lists its not a problem at all getting a manual. I'll still have the Mercury at least while I'm getting the hang of it. Its just that I don't want to get a new car with a stick, since that'll probably involve ditching the current car. Most of my manual transmission experience is in lightly trafficked back roads and on a rallycross course. The rallycross experience probably shouldn't translate over to the real world, though

Honda Fit is tempting, especially with the lease deals, but if it were a lease, I'd be unwilling to modify it. Still, I'll check one out at the car show.

RX8 would be awesome, but the 5 mile commute would probably be an engine killer, unless I made sure to "extend" it a bit.

I'll keep the Fiesta on the list. Wish we could get a 3 door hatch in the US. Same opinion regarding the Mazda2.

So, was the 2.3 stock in the 04-05 ZX3, or is it an option I have to keep an eye out for?

Hadn't even thought of the Cobalt SS. Looks like everything in my price range nearby is the supercharged model. Any problems with them vs the the turbo ones (other than being down on power)?

Dumb question regarding the wishbone suspension Civics/Integras. I know they can (and are often) modified for epic handling. Any chance of getting that without it being a kidney destroying ride? I don't mind a firm ride, just don't want to have to make it ride worse than a small popular sports car just to get the same level of handling.

I had kind of ruled out S2000s, since they were so much more expensive new than Miata. I havent looked to see what they've depreciated to. Will have to check.

Finally, BMWs. Hmm, I really like the looks of the E36 2 doors, but they seem to come in two types around here. Ragged out with high miles, and somewhat cheap. And well maintained with high miles, and bloody expensive. A 325 would be nice, though. I'm a little worried E46 models are still going to be too pricey to maintain. Edit: Also, even the E36 is a little big compared to most of the other cars I'm considering.

Oh yeah, any opinions on the Solstice/Sky, or are they pretty much going to be an also-ran against an equivalently-priced Miata?

eastsidemav wrote: So, was the 2.3 stock in the 04-05 ZX3, or is it an option I have to keep an eye out for?

The 2.3 Duratec was available as an option in 03-04. It only came in 05 (as standard equipment) on the Focus ST. All other Focuses from 00-04 (except for the SVT, which got a pumped up Zetec) got the standard 2.0 Zetec. The 05-07 cars (except the ST) got the 2.0 Duratec.

The 2.3 Duratec, although somewhat difficult to find, is IMO the best engine of the bunch. I would rather have it than the Zetec available in the SVT cars.

3-4k should find you a pretty decent Zx2 or even a Zx2 S/R...

subaru wrx? automatic ones would be much less likely to be modded and abused.

Opinions of 17 cars in 3 large price ranges?

You enjoy hearding these cats?

To your original question, AFAICT, all of the cars are valid, and good. You, and whoever is going to drive, MUST drive all the cars and make sure you can fit and live with them. By far, that is the most imporant thing.

alfadriver wrote: Opinions of 17 cars in 3 large price ranges? You enjoy hearding these cats? To your original question, AFAICT, all of the cars are valid, and good. You, and whoever is going to drive, MUST drive all the cars and make sure you can fit and live with them. By far, that is the most imporant thing.

Yeah, its a pretty big range - trying to encompass all the recent lightweight cars out there. Hoping whatever I buy is going to be in the driveway for quite a while this time, rather than traded away or junked. Just wanted people's opinions on any issues I might encounter.

Was really hoping to get a bit more about the MR2 Spyder. Looks like a lot of fun, and with a drivetrain pretty much out of a Corolla, I'm assuming it'll be Toyota reliable.

WRX is a bit heavy for what I want. I'd have to get a manual if I got one of those - they'd laugh at me at the rallycross if I bought an auto WRX