Exomotive does offer a much prettier Miata-based kit. At least I think so.
Exomotive does offer a much prettier Miata-based kit. At least I think so.
Keith Tanner wrote: Not just that, but a for sale ad for a different carBut a Catfish is an alternative that is either the best of both the Exocet and the Elise or the worst of both, no matter where you source it. So I felt it should be mentioned.
What does the Catfish do better than the Elise does?
Serious question, not a challenge.
Ian F wrote: Exomotive does offer a much prettier Miata-based kit. At least I think so.
Quoted for truth (opinion)
wheelsmithy wrote:Ian F wrote: Exomotive does offer a much prettier Miata-based kit. At least I think so.Quoted for truth (opinion)
X 2 for truth.
Lotus
tuna55 wrote:Keith Tanner wrote: Not just that, but a for sale ad for a different carWhat does the Catfish do better than the Elise does? Serious question, not a challenge.
Not get totalled in a minor front or rear hit
Not present an issue for tall drivers with a helmet
Not have expensive parts prices.
Not be really hard for people who've had back surgery to get in and out of (stepping over the side is easier than folding yourself in half to get through the door).
Not be so fat and heavy 
Adrian_Thompson wrote:tuna55 wrote:Not get totalled in a minor front or rear hit Not present an issue for tall drivers with a helmet Not have expensive parts prices. Not be really hard for people who've had back surgery to get in and out of (stepping over the side is easier than folding yourself in half to get through the door). Not be so fat and heavyKeith Tanner wrote: Not just that, but a for sale ad for a different carWhat does the Catfish do better than the Elise does? Serious question, not a challenge.
What I really want is an Exocet with this on top:
Because it's prettier than the Elise, the Catfish, and everything else.
I'm about to have both. Except mine is an Exige/Exocet pair. I never could bring myself to track the Exige even though I intended to when I bought it. Its to nice and to fragile (when it comes to track use). If you have enough money to throw at even slight damage by all means the Lotus is fantastic. I'll probably never give mine up. This led me to order the race chassis Exocet. I don't care what it looks like. Its made to get down to business and do it at an affordable rate. That said the look has really grew on me (a lot in fact) also seeing one in person the car is more impresive imo. I'm going to enjoy rocking the Exo at the track without having to worry about expensive clam shells. Look up the cost of body work before you pull the lotus trigger and ask yourself will I be ok if I damage it. Hint: the Exo chassis cost about the same as a new Lotus clam.
In reply to tuna55:
That just looks silly
Schrödinger's Flight Service wrote: In reply to tuna55:
laughed a bit too loud during a conference call
If I was going to drive it on the street at all, I'd buy the Elise. For one it's got a roof -- yes, putting it up is much more akin to putting up a tent than a convertible to, but it makes the difference between being willing to drive it somewhere and park it when it might rain vs leaving it at home. For two, street driving means idiots in other cars, and while I'm sure the tube frame chassis on the Exocet is quite strong, the Elise passed Federal crash tests. (OK, maybe it got a waiver in one or two areas, but still). For three, while the Elise is a very exotic looking car, it still looks like a car. Car nerds will look at it and comment on it, but most people will ignore it. The Exocet looks like WTF is THAT? and EVERYONE will want to talk to you about it. That's cool occasionally, but most of the time I don't want to draw quite that much attention when I'm out on the road.
(On the track I'd probably pick the Elise as well, but that's just because it's more different from the Miata I already own)
Do you want to wear a helmet on your commute?
About the MEV-sourced kits: I have some concerns about the engineering. The US-built (and tweaked by Warren) Exocet is 7x stiffer than the original UK design.
tuna55 wrote:Keith Tanner wrote: Not just that, but a for sale ad for a different carWhat does the Catfish do better than the Elise does? Serious question, not a challenge.
And a good question. The big one is the Miata underpinnings. It's friendly like a Miata, and all consumables are Miata. It uses the same size tires at all four corners so you can rotate rubber. Plus there's a very strong aftermarket in this country selling upgrade parts at Miata prices.
You also have the cost of repair. I haven't priced repair panels, but I suspect they'd be less than the Elise ones due to 1) US sourcing and 2) complexity. The car bolts together and if you do bend it badly, it's a space frame underneath instead of glued-together extrusions. Heck, you can get the whole kit for about $13k if you really ball it up.
Loads of room inside in all directions. Wet weight of 1750 lbs with a 250 hp turbo engine.
But no roof, that's a real problem for street use. I think a bikini top would be possible but you'd have to come up with your own. And Elises appear to be appreciating, so there's always that consideration.
It's a different option. Not the "this car is the only possible right answer" option, but it does tick a combination of boxes from the two cars.
To further confuse the topic, what about a 818 coupe? Pricier than an Exocet, but I'd think that you could still squeeze one under the $25K cap.
As a subjective aside, when I used to run Lotus club trackdays I felt that most of the Elise drivers were a bit timid with their cars. Between the short wheelbase/rear weight bias and the unrepairable chassis, it just didn't seem to lend itself to being tossed around like a Miata/Exocet.
How much Factory Five Roadster does $25K get you these days? Base kits are still starting from $12,900.
I would throw out the 818 also. Although as a track car they are having problems with heat, an air/water intercooler is considered mandatory. Oil starvation has also been a problem. And resell doesn't appear too be very good. The factory is not racing it much so my guess is they have been trying to sort the problems out before they bring it back out to the race track.
nderwater wrote: How much Factory Five Roadster does $25K get you these days? Base kits are still starting from $12,900.
Based on my observations if you are careful with your budget you can stay under 25K. Things like shiny bits and paint/bodywork add up real fast. But a down and dirty track car could be done.
Keith, how does the Exocet and Catfish compare on track?
The Exocet is about 200 lbs lighter but draggy. The Catfish actually produces downforce at speed and can take a much larger tire (those are 245s in the pictures). So you can figure how they deal with high speed and low speed tracks there.
The Catfish makes you want to drive smoothly and do justice to it. The Exocet makes you want to set your hair on fire and just drive like a lunatic - I don't know why. But it's a complete riot. The Catfish should feel exactly the same, but it doesn't. Maybe it's the amount of exposure in the Exocet that encourages it.
The Exocet cools better as well due to the open engine bay.
Another option, what about a DF Goblin?
mainlandboy wrote: Another option, what about a DF Goblin? http://dfkitcar.com/
That car sure has an "interesting" looking rear suspension in it!
einy wrote:mainlandboy wrote: Another option, what about a DF Goblin? http://dfkitcar.com/That car sure has an "interesting" looking rear suspension in it!
I'm pretty sure they take the whole front macpherson strut suspension, k-member, engine and tranny from the donor cobalt and bolt it to their tube frame in the back. Multiple people doing this and this is not the best looking example.
Keith Tanner wrote: The Catfish makes you want to drive smoothly and do justice to it. The Exocet makes you want to set your hair on fire and just drive like a lunatic - I don't know why. But it's a complete riot. The Catfish should feel exactly the same, but it doesn't. Maybe it's the amount of exposure in the Exocet that encourages it.
How do you compare the Exocet and the various Sevens you've driven?
D2W wrote:einy wrote:I'm pretty sure they take the whole front macpherson strut suspension, k-member, engine and tranny from the donor cobalt and bolt it to their tube frame in the back. Multiple people doing this and this is not the best looking example.mainlandboy wrote: Another option, what about a DF Goblin? http://dfkitcar.com/That car sure has an "interesting" looking rear suspension in it!
That's how Fiat/Bertone did it on the Fiat/Bertone X-1/9. They took the 128 drivetrain and front suspension and mounted it in the rear with locked down tie-rods. Its considered one of the better handling cars of the time period:
codrus wrote:Keith Tanner wrote: The Catfish makes you want to drive smoothly and do justice to it. The Exocet makes you want to set your hair on fire and just drive like a lunatic - I don't know why. But it's a complete riot. The Catfish should feel exactly the same, but it doesn't. Maybe it's the amount of exposure in the Exocet that encourages it.How do you compare the Exocet and the various Sevens you've driven?
A much bigger difference. The Catfish and Exocet both feel like hyperactive Miatas. All the Miata friendliness and response is there, it's just amplified by the weight. If you're a Miata driver, you'll feel at home within half a lap. Getting used to how late your new braking points are takes a while longer.
Sevens vary a lot more, but generally they have a light (and fairly narrow) front end with the driver sitting on the rear wheels. So you have to manage the grip on turn-in more, then you ride the rear wheels on corner exit. They're very easy to drive sideways because of where you sit. Mine was set up to eradicate the turn-in understeer completely, which made it happiest with about a half step of rear slip angle. The frames are definitely not as stiff as the Exocet, but they're generally even lighter.
You'll need to log in to post.
