In reply to stroker:
It's not like Alonso hasn't gone skulking back to Renault before. Hmmm, that could be interesting...
In reply to stroker:
It's not like Alonso hasn't gone skulking back to Renault before. Hmmm, that could be interesting...
Wow, what a race, tire issues, no real working plan, bad driving, good driving, burning cars, non pacecar on hot track, just wow
No wonder Korea is shaky for 2014
aussiesmg wrote: Wow, what a race, tire issues, no real working plan, bad driving, good driving, burning cars, non pacecar on hot track, just wow No wonder Korea is shaky for 2014
What!?
In reply to Cuda:
A fire truck was deployed during a safety car period. The cars were running at near full-pace because they hadn't caught up to the safety car.
NBCSports is replaying the race at (I think) 5pm est.
oldsaw wrote: In reply to Cuda: A fire truck was deployed during a safety car period. The cars were running at near full-pace because they hadn't caught up to the safety car. NBCSports is replaying the race at (I think) 5pm est.
If I saw it correctly the truck was on course before the flashing yellows started, the flags were waving though
If NASCAR does something right, it's cautions.
aussiesmg wrote:oldsaw wrote: In reply to Cuda: A fire truck was deployed during a safety car period. The cars were running at near full-pace because they hadn't caught up to the safety car. NBCSports is replaying the race at (I think) 5pm est.If I saw it correctly the truck was on course before the flashing yellows started, the flags were waving though
Yeah, I missed that in the wee, fuzzy hours by attempting to watch it live.
I don't know if there is a time-gap on the broadcast feed, but the safety vehicle was definitely on course before the SC logo was displayed on-screen. I'm betting the track officials who authorized that had a big tongue-lashing, huge fines and, hopefully, long time-outs from officiating.
Rumor-mongering:
Multiple reports of Vettel's car staccatoing like traction control all season. I'll go ahead and convict him now of being a cheater his whole career, all of F1 is a sham.
Brawn is moving to McLaren Honda for 2014. McLaren stated they could "afford Alonso". Alonso is pissed at Ferrari, again. $0.02 says Alonso to McLaren Honda for 2014.
Other bits:
Go Sauber! Nicely done.
Go Lotus! The best team not cheating!
Javelin wrote: Rumor-mongering: Multiple reports of Vettel's car staccatoing like traction control all season. I'll go ahead and convict him now of being a cheater his whole career, all of F1 is a sham.
I believe this as well. Can't believe his starts/out laps on cold tires.
Brawn is moving to McLaren Honda for 2014. McLaren stated they could "afford Alonso". Alonso is pissed at Ferrari, again. $0.02 says Alonso to McLaren Honda for 2014.
I see Brawn going to Williams. He's investing in them, think he can make them into a top-3 team again. Alonso.... think he will stay with Ferrari.
Other bits: Go Sauber! Nicely done.
Always like the underdogs!
Go Lotus! The best team not cheating!
Yea, RoGro and Kimi are doing good, though RoGro was pretty cut throat on Kimi's pass...
DukeOfUndersteer wrote: Yea, RoGro and Kimi are doing good, though RoGro was pretty cut throat on Kimi's pass...
RoGro is pretty cut throat when behind the wheel.
Javelin wrote: Rumor-mongering: Multiple reports of Vettel's car staccatoing like traction control all season. I'll go ahead and convict him now of being a cheater his whole career, all of F1 is a sham. Brawn is moving to McLaren Honda for 2014. McLaren stated they could "afford Alonso". Alonso is pissed at Ferrari, again. $0.02 says Alonso to McLaren Honda for 2014.
As much as I wish this were true, I think it would be impossible for them to not have been caught by now. Ferrari could keep it secret or make sure that nobody "catches" them, but Red Bull doesn't have that kind of pull. Besides, I think that Red Bull is kinda like the annoying kid in F1 since they're not a car manufacturer (ala' Ferrari, Mercedes, Lotus, McLaren, etc), yet they still kick the snot out of everyone else.
-Rob
Just had a thought. How excellent would it be for Webber to reveal Red Bull's been cheating at the end of the last race this year? 
-Rob
In reply to rob_lewis:
Red Bull is a car manufacturer; a low volume producer of RB9's for an exclusive clientele of exactly two.
Webber probably has more class than that, more so if he's been paid to keep quiet about it or has been legally constricted.
rob_lewis wrote: Just had a thought. How excellent would it be for Webber to reveal Red Bull's been cheating at the end of the last race this year?
It would make him look pretty silly for not being able to do E36 M3 with a cheater car.
I like Webber. I hope he leaves the circus with dignity and goes somewhere cool like DTM or BTCC without too much drama. The world does not need any more Barachello or Massa wankers clinging to last place and crying over spilled milk.
I was coming to see who else had heard the rumors about Red Bull's KERS-powered traction control, and who else thinks Sauber has also figured it out now. The way Hulkenberg was pulling away from Hamilton on the corner exits was WRONG 
Seems to me that it's a pretty logical solution, I'm surprised no one else figured it out. Basically, they're using the encoders in the KERS motors to calculate wheel speed differential, relate that to vehicle attitude/expected values, and apply torque as needed. Since it's all done within the motor controller and isn't using any external sensors/computers, it's not really "traction control." Just using the existing systems in a really smart way.
At least, that's how I've interpreted everything.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:rob_lewis wrote: Just had a thought. How excellent would it be for Webber to reveal Red Bull's been cheating at the end of the last race this year?It would make him look pretty silly for not being able to do E36 M3 with a cheater car. I like Webber. I hope he leaves the circus with dignity and goes somewhere cool like DTM or BTCC without too much drama. The world does not need any more Barachello or Massa wankers clinging to last place and crying over spilled milk.
Racecar Engineering article on the subject seems to intimate that Webber doesn't have the same technology on his car. Because, "His car didn't have the same sound as Vettel's" coming out of the corners.
If that is true, I hope RBR goes down in flames at some point. I used to be a big fan and we have known for years that there isn't true = treatment in the garage......but that's just....wow.
In reply to unevolved:
That is entirely correct, and it's been revealed that RB has had this on their cars the last 4 years. It also puts a hell of a strain on the electrical system, hence the alternator fires they have suffered.
So serious applause to the engineering team for figuring it out, and Vettel goes down about a zillion notches in my book.
It'll be interesting to see how Sauber finishes out the season now...
z31maniac wrote:Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:Racecar Engineering article on the subject seems to intimate that Webber doesn't have the same technology on his car. Because, "His car didn't have the same sound as Vettel's" coming out of the corners. If that is true, I hope RBR goes down in flames at some point. I used to be a big fan and we have known for years that there isn't true = treatment in the garage......but that's just....wow.rob_lewis wrote: Just had a thought. How excellent would it be for Webber to reveal Red Bull's been cheating at the end of the last race this year?It would make him look pretty silly for not being able to do E36 M3 with a cheater car. I like Webber. I hope he leaves the circus with dignity and goes somewhere cool like DTM or BTCC without too much drama. The world does not need any more Barachello or Massa wankers clinging to last place and crying over spilled milk.
That would PISS me off, I have followed Webber since his Formula Ford days, I would be so POed if they stole his chance to be the World Champ by playing favorites
I doubt it's favoritism. Newey's smarter than that. I do, however, think it's dependent on the driver and their style to be as effective as possible. I could see something like this being completely disrupted by a driver "mashing" the gas (relatively speaking). I've heard that Vettel is somewhat antisocial among the other drivers, choosing to spend more time in the garage with his mechanics than at social events, could be the extra time they're spending is paying off. Tuning a system like that would be a colossal bitch. If Webber's not as intimately aware of its inner workings as Vettel is, could be he's not able to get as much out of it.
For all the crap I hear about Vettel, I find more serious reasons to respect him. The long hours in the shop, the whole girlfriend thing, etc.
In reply to aussiesmg:
Well be PO'd. When Webber did get it, it wasn't even the same (as good) as Vettel's.
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/red-bulls-traction-secret-revealed/
http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2013/10/so-how-is-red-bull-running-traction.html
http://www.formula1blog.com/formula-1/allegations-against-red-bull-gaining-traction/
In reply to unevolved:
Newey does not run the team. Christian Horner does.
Newey could be a Nobel Prize winner, and Horner can still favor one driver over the other.
In reply to alfadriver and Javelin:
Very true. There definitely could be some favoritism. Even those links are speculation. Yes, Webber's slower and isn't making the same noises as Vettel. No one can dispute that. The question is the why, and no one has an answer. It could be that his driving style can't utilize that precise balance of electric torque, I imagine it's not as simple as "on/off." Or it could be that Webber pissed in the wrong people's cheerios. Even if he did, though, what would be the implications? What do the rules say about cars not being "identical?" Surely they can't mandate identical software, which would be where they'd get around it. No (extra) hardware is required.
Whatever it is, I want to know how it's done. Some people have speculated it's using shock pressure or wheel position rate of change as input, but I doubt it. I think it could be done completely inside the motor controller.
Red Bull suck, seriously they really screwed Webber out of a victory at Suzuka
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