Some of you don't think an Austrian company (that's giving more money than anybody in F1) would favor a German driver over an Australian driver?
Some of you don't think an Austrian company (that's giving more money than anybody in F1) would favor a German driver over an Australian driver?
Just a little reminder at how much better Hamilton is than Vettel...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpUQY-zoFnE
YEah, Webber was unusualey coy when he got out of the car. He didn't come out and say 'they Berked me by calling me in so early and forcing a 3 stopper to try and out psych out RoGro' but you could hear him holding back. No matter, that was the best race at the front we've seen in a while, you really didn't know who was going to win for the first 2/3d's of the race
Looks like Sauber got the KERS TC trick down now, too.
Too bad the world's most boring driver is going to make it 5 in a row. At least Schumi had some moxie.
racerfink wrote: Just a little reminder at how much better Hamilton is than Vettel... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpUQY-zoFnE
I know which car I'd rather be faster in.
I feel like we'll be seeing a lot more red on the podium next year... Going to be real interesting seeing the effect Webber's departure has on the RBR guys.
unevolved wrote: I feel like we'll be seeing a lot more red on the podium next year... Going to be real interesting seeing the effect Webber's departure has on the RBR guys.
Why, are Red Bull changing their color scheme?
Because this effect: Alonso and Kimi are both very consistent drivers.
http://f1banter.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/senna-vs-prost-statistics-show-you-would-rather-have-prost-in-your-car-if-you-were-a-f1-team-principal/
Adrian_Thompson wrote:unevolved wrote: I feel like we'll be seeing a lot more red on the podium next year... Going to be real interesting seeing the effect Webber's departure has on the RBR guys.Why, are Red Bull changing their color scheme?
I've heard rumours that Marussia has a fan...
oldsaw wrote:Adrian_Thompson wrote:I've heard rumours that Marussia has a fan...unevolved wrote: I feel like we'll be seeing a lot more red on the podium next year... Going to be real interesting seeing the effect Webber's departure has on the RBR guys.Why, are Red Bull changing their color scheme?
New rumor. Massa to Marussia with Jim Hall, Gordon Murray and the ghost of Colin Chapman engineering it while the Russians clone Adrian Newey from a booger he left on the pit wall at the last race
In reply to Adrian_Thompson:
I would buy every shirt, flag, energy drink, kitten, wig, hat, whatever they offered if that happened :)
I do like Red Bull team from an Engineering standpoint. I have to go re-read the rules for 14 and see what all is changing other than the engines. It will be interesting with the new cars, I hope.
oldsaw wrote:Adrian_Thompson wrote:I've heard rumours that Marussia has a fan...unevolved wrote: I feel like we'll be seeing a lot more red on the podium next year... Going to be real interesting seeing the effect Webber's departure has on the RBR guys.Why, are Red Bull changing their color scheme?
Chilton's going all the way in 2014.
Thinkkker wrote: In reply to Adrian_Thompson: I would buy every shirt, flag, energy drink, kitten, wig, hat, whatever they offered if that happened :) I do like Red Bull team from an Engineering standpoint. I have to go re-read the rules for 14 and see what all is changing *other than the engines*. It will be interesting with the new cars, I hope.
I would also suggest reading some of the analysis of the impact of the engine rules on the car. As far as I know, the rules don't really point that out. One Racecar Engineering article I read pointed out that we should expect to see Monza kind of downforce at Monaco so that the drag is low enough that they car can finish the race.
The fuel consumption rules will have bigger effects on the areo package than any aero rule since the ban of moveable wings.
While many can worry about the races becoming fuel economy runs, these guys are also racers. So the less aero will mean two big things- less interruption of the flow between cars, so cars can drive closer to each other through corners; less downforce under braking, which means that the braking difference between cars may bring some more dive bomb/ out brake passing. if it were me, I'd make them run metal rotors- which would let them abuse them a little, but not too much.
I just hope the tires get better. It gets really old having races being decided by E36 M3ty tires not being able to last the race. Yeah, yeah, strategy and all that, but this is racing, not business management.
unevolved wrote: I just hope the tires get better. It gets really old having races being decided by E36 M3ty tires not being able to last the race. Yeah, yeah, strategy and all that, but this is racing, not business management.
Plus eleventy.
Give them unlimited engine regs (maybe under 3 liters), unlimited KERS, bring back moveable aero, and let the tire companies engineer the best tire they can. If a Le Mans Prototype can do 5 stints on a set of Michelins and still turn the laps they do, surely Pirelli can make a bitchin' GP tire. Oh, and give them special qualifying rubber again, too. If your lap gets scrubbed, you're screwed.
Maroon92 wrote:unevolved wrote: I just hope the tires get better. It gets really old having races being decided by E36 M3ty tires not being able to last the race. Yeah, yeah, strategy and all that, but this is racing, not business management.Plus eleventy. Give them unlimited engine regs (maybe under 3 liters), unlimited KERS, bring back moveable aero, and let the tire companies engineer the best tire they can. If a Le Mans Prototype can do 5 stints on a set of Michelins and still turn the laps they do, surely Pirelli can make a bitchin' GP tire. Oh, and give them special qualifying rubber again, too. If your lap gets scrubbed, you're screwed.
Of course they can, it's that the FIA has forced them to make a tire that quickly degrades.
alfadriver wrote:Thinkkker wrote: In reply to Adrian_Thompson: I would buy every shirt, flag, energy drink, kitten, wig, hat, whatever they offered if that happened :) I do like Red Bull team from an Engineering standpoint. I have to go re-read the rules for 14 and see what all is changing *other than the engines*. It will be interesting with the new cars, I hope.I would also suggest reading some of the analysis of the impact of the engine rules on the car. As far as I know, the rules don't really point that out. One Racecar Engineering article I read pointed out that we should expect to see Monza kind of downforce at Monaco so that the drag is low enough that they car can finish the race. The fuel consumption rules will have bigger effects on the areo package than any aero rule since the ban of moveable wings. While many can worry about the races becoming fuel economy runs, these guys are also racers. So the less aero will mean two big things- less interruption of the flow between cars, so cars can drive closer to each other through corners; less downforce under braking, which means that the braking difference between cars may bring some more dive bomb/ out brake passing. if it were me, I'd make them run metal rotors- which would let them abuse them a little, but not too much.
I hadn't thought about that, but you're right. The need to conserve energy will mean the need for lower drag. The FIA has been trying to cut down the amount of downforce for a while, and this one might actually stick. If it means the cars can run closer, fantastic.
The thing that sticks out to me in the engine regs is the fuel flow vs engine speed. The new engines are all about efficiency, which is great. But they don't get their full fuel flow unless they're running over 10,000 rpm - just so they make a cool noise. Let the engineers decide the ideal engine speed, don't artificially require a minimum!
The tire rules are dumb. Want to make it more interesting? Take away tire changes just like they've taken away refueling. Now the drivers have to make their tires last the whole race (don't lock those brakes!), and we'll see a change in performance over the race just like we do due to fuel load. And let the tire manufacturers build whatever they want.
Keith Tanner wrote: The tire rules are dumb. Want to make it more interesting? Take away tire changes just like they've taken away refueling. Now the drivers have to make their tires last the whole race (don't lock those brakes!), and we'll see a change in performance over the race just like we do due to fuel load. And let the tire manufacturers build whatever they want.
They did that in 2005 -- it generally sucked. It did succeed in breaking Schumacher's championship winning streak, though, because Bridgestone failed to produce a competitive tire under those rules.
The FIA desperately wants passing, because processional races are generally regarded as boring and that leads to declining viewership and ultimately to less money. KERS was originally an attempt to do this (had little effect because both passer and passee wound up using it at the same time). DRS was another (somewhat more successful) attempt, but the rapidly degrading tires have really been a major factor in generating passing. A car with new tires can be 2-3 seconds a lap faster than a car on old tires, and if you have races with 2-3 pit stops and cars on different strategies then you get lots of passes.
If you ban refueling and ban tire changes, then the cars are just going to finish in the order they qualified in with zero passing. Limiting fuel has a real potential to do this too, historically series with significant fuel limits have resulted in most drivers settling for the position they have rather than expend fuel fighting to try to pass because of the significant risk of a DNF.
Look at it this way, the rapidly degrading tires seem a little dumb, but they're the same for everyone and are they really any more artificial than NASCAR's caution flags for an invisible scrap of paper on the track?
Sorry, I watched the Bathurst 1000 over the weekend. I saw more racing in the last 20 laps than in a whole season of F1, and that was just for the podium. No artificial tire limitations, no videogame DRS, no gimmicks. And that's an endurance race, not a two hour sprint!
I didn't realize that F1 had tried the one-tire rule. I wasn't watching in 2005, I was all rally all the time at that point 
No passing there either, of course. So you never saw anyone saving his tires for a late charge, or blasting off early to build up a lead that would hopefully last as the tires went off?
The passes generated by pit stops and crap tires tend to be unimportant ones. It's not for the lead or position, merely people running parade laps at different speeds. Monaco being the most egregious example. About the only excitement it's generated this year was when Kimi would do something unexpected and actually end up racing for the lead. If there is a pass due to a pit stop, it happens while one car is parked in the pits. That's a change of position, but not a pass. I haven't watched Japan yet, I understand that tires did play a role there.
I don't watch NASCAR (there's just not enough time in the week), so I can't comment on their yellow flag policies.
Supercar V8 is a lot more tightly controlled than F1 is. Small block V-8's, templates for bodywork, and (interestingly enough) tires that wear out so that they have to be changed every stop. They even control the rear end ratio. It's probably more tightly controlled than NASCAR.
Since the team could change tires and brake pads in less time than it took to refuel, it made no difference whether the team had to change tires or not. The V8Supercar tires don't seem to fall off a cliff the way that F1 tires do, either - the cars were charging hard until they came into the pits. The big difference is the aero, these cars can get bumper to bumper without overheating or losing grip.
Keith Tanner wrote: Sorry, I watched the Bathurst 1000 over the weekend. I saw more racing in the last 20 laps than in a whole season of F1, and that was just for the podium. No artificial tire limitations, no videogame DRS, no gimmicks. And that's an endurance race, not a two hour sprint!
Perhaps. Alternately, one might argue that the almost-spec nature of that series is itself one giant gimmick.
It's genuinely hard to have a series that allows and encourages technical innovation and also features close racing between drivers in different cars. Most of the time the former results in teams that are widely separated in speeds, and are thus likely to finish in basically the same order in which they qualified. Add the unfortunate results of aerodynamic physics (where following another car too closely results in disturbed air and loss of downforce) and you've got a recipe for processional racing.
I didn't realize that F1 had tried the one-tire rule. I wasn't watching in 2005, I was all rally all the time at that point
They allowed refueling in 2005, so there were still pit strategies. This was during the tire war, so the teams at the sharp end of the grid tended to have tires that were made specifically for them. Kimi (at McLaren) and Alonso (at Renault) basically split the wins, except for the debacle at Indy where Schumacher won a 6-car race. Mostly the tires had no problems lasting the race distance (except for Indy), so there wasn't much saving going on. Bridgestone never got a handle on it, so the Ferraris were nowhere.
The passes generated by pit stops and crap tires tend to be unimportant ones. It's not for the lead or position, merely people running parade laps at different speeds. Monaco being the most egregious example. About the only excitement it's generated this year was when Kimi would do something unexpected and actually end up racing for the lead. If there is a pass due to a pit stop, it happens while one car is parked in the pits. That's a change of position, but not a pass. I haven't watched Japan yet, I understand that tires did play a role there.
Mostly the passes for the lead haven't happened this year because Red Bull is dominating the season harder than anyone since Ferrari in 2004, and Webber is having trouble competing with Vettel (insert conspiracy theories here). The tire degradation rules have definitely produced passing in the 3rd through 10ths positions, as well as some interesting results at the beginning of this season and in early 2012. Through a combination of more conservatism on Pirelli's part and a lack of team knowledge about the tires, the tires have been more significant during the beginnings of 2012 and 2013 than in the later races.
Monaco is a crazy race. There's no way it would ever be approved if it were a new race today, and the only reason it's still held there is that that's where everyone makes their big sponsorship deals.
I don't watch NASCAR (there's just not enough time in the week), so I can't comment on their yellow flag policies.
Nor do I (F1 is pretty much the only thing I watch these days aside from Le Mans in June), but NASCAR is somewhat infamous for adding yellow flags to bunch up the field and create excitement during the last dozen laps.
This thread has gone a bit quiet recently. But some news the other day was that after Sauber signed the kindergarten kid from Russia, STR has also signed a young Russian Daniil Kvyat as their replacement for Daniel Ricciardo in 2014. http://en.espnf1.com/tororosso/motorsport/story/130951.html While this kid has come up through the Red Bull elementary school process, I’m kind of surprised as he’s still only 19 and he’s been competing in GP3 (admittedly currently 2nd in the standings) Red Bull Also have António Félix da Cost in Formula Renault 3.5 (Finished 3rd in Series this year) and was their F1 test driver last year. I assume that there is more than just Red Bull $$’s behind this move.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson:
Russia is the new Venezuela but with private money.
In the no surprise here news, Brawn leaving Mercedes, official at last.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24725406
So, off to Honda? Off to McLaren to integrate Honda or off to Williams to move them back up the grid?
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