The FIA doesn't just give away Super Licenses. Heck, they didn't think Loeb was up to it. So I have to hope that the Russian kids have at least a little bit of experience.
Lotus is shooting themselves in the foot. People love them because of Kimi and some very effective social media work. But by abandoning Kimi (and even abusing him verbally) at this point, they're driving away that good will.
In other news, I was listening to the BBC5 pod-cast on my lunch time walk. Someone was complaining about the tired old Webber conspiracy theory after his alternator overheated. One of the commentators pointed out that Webber has a bigger air duct on his bodywork to cool the alternator than Vettel's car because his driving style is so much harder on the car he overheats things more. Vettel is gentler on the car, put's less stress in it so it doesn't break as often yet is still faster.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson:
Or, you know, his traction control could just work better...
Keith Tanner wrote: The FIA doesn't just give away Super Licenses. Heck, they didn't think Loeb was up to it. So I have to hope that the Russian kids have at least a little bit of experience. Lotus is shooting themselves in the foot. People love them because of Kimi and some very effective social media work. But by abandoning Kimi (and even abusing him verbally) at this point, they're driving away that good will.
As much as I like Kimi, I'll still be impressed with Lotus because they do so much with lesser resources. I also like that RoGro has progressed from a crasher to a damn good racer; the kid has spunk.
I'll still like the Finn but it's disappointing he's moving to that damn red team.
< Not a Scuderia fan...
Seriously, Webber should just walk away. Red Bull doesn't want to see him finish a race. I want to see Vettel be told to slow down because his trans is failing.
I like Lotus because they're doing so well too. They're the team I always cheer for. But they're squandering a lot of goodwill by jerking Kimi around and being blatant about it. There are going to be a lot of people reluctantly cheering on Ferrari next year who may have stuck with Lotus.
I'm really, really hoping Hulkenberg ends up at Lotus. I think he's a very promising driver and he and the team should complement each other well.
Keith Tanner wrote: Seriously, Webber should just walk away. Red Bull doesn't want to see him finish a race. I want to see Vettel be told to slow down because his trans is failing.
Well he did once have his trans bind up and leave his car immobile before the race finished, before that incident with Webber's...
Keith Tanner wrote: The FIA doesn't just give away Super Licenses. Heck, they didn't think Loeb was up to it. So I have to hope that the Russian kids have at least a little bit of experience. Lotus is shooting themselves in the foot. People love them because of Kimi and some very effective social media work. But by abandoning Kimi (and even abusing him verbally) at this point, they're driving away that good will.
I don't doubt the Russian are good enough drivers to earn a Superlicence, they've come up through the system. I think the issue is going to be their race craft and maturity. Yes they have Rubles behind them, but that’s a long tradition and I don’t think history frowns on others who have come in as with pay drivers or those with patronage behind them. Lauda, Hunt, DeAngelis all used $'s to get into F1. It could be argued that Senna used his Brazilian $'s or that Schumacher used his Mercedes as a sugar daddy for an in to F1. These guys are the current beneficiaries
The bigger issue is are they coming in too soon? Bruce McLaren, Jenson Button, Kimi and some German whippersnapper named Vettel all came into F1 at a very young age and did just fine. But in those days they had unlimited testing and could pound around and around to learn the car, the tracks etc. Remember it wasn’t long ago you had separate test teams running full time. I think these guys could suffer the Jaime Alguersuari fate of coming in, while great race car drivers, not having the experience or time in an F1 car to do the job right. That could work out well for Antoni Felix daCosta if Danill Kvyat finds the water too deep for him. Let’s face it Torro Rosso aren’t shy about dropping the axe.
The big issue these days is there are so many people coming up through the ranks it's only those with the biggest $$'s that can make the final jump. If you go back to what I view as the heyday of F1 in the 80’s the cream always rose to the top, but even F3000 had gentlemen drivers making up the ranks or hard up guys running cars off the back of open trailers pulled behind regular street cars. Think about it, if the average F3000 grid was say 15-20 starters with a few of those being there for fun and prestige not with any real hopes of being a professional race car driver. So one step down from F1 you had a maximum of 15 guys fighting for one of the F1 slots. That was at a time when F1 had 32 entrants and pre-qualifying, so 15 guys were trying to get into one of 32 seats, not bad odds. Today F1 has 22 slots, GP2 has 27 drivers and World Series by Renault (aka Formula Renault 3.5) has 28 drivers. So now you have 55 drivers vying for 22 seats. The odds have got a lot lot worse. People graduating from F3 (or GP3) to F1 and skipping the ‘final’ stepping stone is also a long history. Senna, Brundle (the best driver never to win a GP), Kimi etc. all did it. Add in people coming in via other routs DTM (DiResta), sports cars (Webber and Schumacher) and the odds get longer and longer. So, to sum up my long ramble, I’ve got no issue with the young Russians coming in, did I wish the drives went elsewhere? Yes, but F1, even more so than real life, isn’t fair. May the best man win.
Keith Tanner wrote: I like Lotus because they're doing so well too. They're the team I always cheer for. But they're squandering a lot of goodwill by jerking Kimi around and being blatant about it. There are going to be a lot of people reluctantly cheering on Ferrari next year who may have stuck with Lotus.
Just to be clear who you are talking about- you were/are a fan of Benneton-Renault-Lotus? Or Lotus-Caterham?
Oldsaw
It's interesting to hear RenRenulotus as a low budget team. they are not. Of course, not Ferrari or Red Bull budget, but neither are they Williams or Force India. And for sure not Lotus-Caterham.
Keith Tanner wrote: Seriously, Webber should just walk away. Red Bull doesn't want to see him finish a race. I want to see Vettel be told to slow down because his trans is failing.
I really don't buy the conspiracy theories. Also he may not be a favorite of Helmut Marko compared to DerVunderKid, but he is a favorite of Dietrich Mateschitz who ultimately holds the purse strings. No way would they intentionally berkeley with Webber. He's older, slower and faster on his equipment. Yes yes I remember the British GP incident with the front wing, but they had one and had to make a choice who got it. Favoring Vettel for the wing is entirely different from sabotaging Webber
Keith Tanner wrote: I like Lotus because they're doing so well too. They're the team I always cheer for. But they're squandering a lot of goodwill by jerking Kimi around and being blatant about it. There are going to be a lot of people reluctantly cheering on Ferrari next year who may have stuck with Lotus.
I don't think they intentionally jerked his chain, they hadn't been paying a lot of people, Kimi was one of them, and probably in a better position than many people to ride it out until he got the money. I too wish he'd stayed at Renault next year, I hate to see him go to the red purse gang as it gives me a conflict of interests, one of my favorite drivers with my least favorite team.
RoGro is doing a stunning job, I was one of the many calling for him to get the boot last year, but he's really come good this year.
Keith Tanner wrote: I'm really, really hoping Hulkenberg ends up at Lotus. I think he's a very promising driver and he and the team should complement each other well.
Yup, I think it will happen, I doubt Maldonardo will get it, from what I read with Chavez gone his Venezuelan $$'s are drying up and he could be out of a ride. I believe PDVSA have hired some big time attorneys to try and wriggle out of their contract with Williams which is supposed to go through the end of 2015 too.
alfadriver wrote: Just to be clear who you are talking about- you were/are a fan of Benneton-Renault-Lotus? Or Lotus-Caterham?
Pretty sure he means Benneton-Renault-Lotus. Kimi never drove for Team Lotus (2010-2011 Lotus-Caterham), or Team Lotus, or Lotus Enginnering, or Lotus cars or Rob Walker Racing Team or or or or any other version of Lotus 
Adrian_Thompson wrote: Yup, I think it will happen, I doubt Maldonardo will get it, from what I read with Chavez gone his Venezuelan $$'s are drying up and he could be out of a ride.
Then there's this:
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/venezuelan-currency-scandal-hits-motorsport/
GameboyRMH wrote:Adrian_Thompson wrote: Yup, I think it will happen, I doubt Maldonardo will get it, from what I read with Chavez gone his Venezuelan $$'s are drying up and he could be out of a ride.Then there's this: http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/venezuelan-currency-scandal-hits-motorsport/
Hadn't seen that one before, but no surprise. Remember EJ Viso called in 'sick' to the last round. How many Venezuelan drivers will be trying to get political asylum in the US over the next few weeks 
alfadriver wrote:Keith Tanner wrote: I like Lotus because they're doing so well too. They're the team I always cheer for. But they're squandering a lot of goodwill by jerking Kimi around and being blatant about it. There are going to be a lot of people reluctantly cheering on Ferrari next year who may have stuck with Lotus.Just to be clear who you are talking about- you were/are a fan of Benneton-Renault-Lotus? Or Lotus-Caterham?
This is the F1 2013 thread, and only one team self-identifies as "LOTUS". I mean the team with the black cars who have Kimi as a current driver and are jerking him around. Which of course you know. I don't care about the background politics or the evolution, the team calls themselves Lotus.
And they are jerking Kimi around. The most obvious was the radio etiquette at the India race, but they're also marketing Grosjean really hard all of a sudden. Yes, he's stepped up. But Lotus was happier about him finishing third than they were about Kimi finishing second recently.
Keith Tanner wrote: Seriously, Webber should just walk away. Red Bull doesn't want to see him finish a race. I want to see Vettel be told to slow down because his trans is failing. I like Lotus because they're doing so well too. They're the team I always cheer for. But they're squandering a lot of goodwill by jerking Kimi around and being blatant about it. There are going to be a lot of people reluctantly cheering on Ferrari next year who may have stuck with Lotus. I'm really, really hoping Hulkenberg ends up at Lotus. I think he's a very promising driver and he and the team should complement each other well.
Agreed on Webbo, he should just munch his car into Vettel's on lap 1 every race until the end now that everything is done.
Agreed on Lotus. I hated them as Renault, and as Lotus (especially for the stunt they pulled with Caterham), but started rooting for them when Kimi came back. I will be a Tifosi next season, now.
Hulkenburg isn't going to Lotus, but Maldonado is! Can you say team crash, bang, boom?!?
In reply to Keith Tanner:
but as can be seen how they treat French driver Grosjean- it matters. They may be called Lotus, but they are very much a French team.
I like Kimi, but Reanulotus hasn't really done anything to make me a fan of them. Painting a car the color of an old car that they really should not be using since it's actually a tobbaco design (I bet McLaren could not get away with the old red and while livery, even though it's historic, too) does not give a team any special anything.
What sucks for the future, going to Ferrari makes it harder for me to root for him- I really dislike Ferrari.
In reply to alfadriver:
That reminds me, I really intend to build a modern McLaren F1 car in the classic dayglo orange/white Marlboro colors. I love that livery.
Javelin wrote: In reply to alfadriver: That reminds me, I really intend to build a modern McLaren F1 car in the classic dayglo orange/white Marlboro colors. I *love* that livery.
can you get one with all of the aero bits?
It would be intersting to see from various angles once you painted the pattern correctly from the above angle
very interesting.
Keith Tanner wrote: And they are jerking Kimi around. The most obvious was the radio etiquette at the India race, but they're also marketing Grosjean really hard all of a sudden. Yes, he's stepped up. But Lotus was happier about him finishing third than they were about Kimi finishing second recently.
I'm a Kimi fan and frequent RoGro basher, but come on. They were all round the edges of broke, they had no money. It was promised by Infinity Racing Partners Limited (Infinity Racing) for MONTHS. They 'bought' a 35% stake in the team and the check was in the mail for a long long time. That's pretty much all they did to jerk him around. I can't blame them for that and equally I don't blame Kimi for upping and leaving for a better deal. Also since Kimi signed for the red purse I think he's got a bit lazy, it's not the first time, While RoGro is driving his balls off.
Ultimately (in that I don’t like the team) I think the Red purse will be the better place to be next year. They have the financial backing to have been working on the 2015 car hard hard hard for a long time. Let’s face it, even with the Infinity racing money I wonder how far behind Lotus are in the development of next year’s car. To be honest I'm actually more impressed with Lotus now then with Kimi's win at the start of the season, I never thought with their money issues they would have had the ability to stay competitive, instead they are arguably the 2nd fastest car out there.
My concern for Kimi next year is that as much as I like him and really don't like Alonso, I actually think Alonso may well be the best driver in F1 right now and I don't know how Kimi's motivation will hold up if he's getting schooled by Alonso.
alfadriver wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: but as can be seen how they treat French driver Grosjean- it matters. They may be called Lotus, but they are very much a French team.
They're a French team? They're headquartered in England and have British guys on the radio...
Javelin wrote: Hulkenburg isn't going to Lotus, but Maldonado is! Can you say team crash, bang, boom?!?
I keep hearing this, but with all the issues with the Venezuelan currency I don't see it. Also I dislike Maldonardo even more than I dislike Alonso, and unlike Alonso I don’t rate him as a ‘great’ driver so he has no redeeming features
In reply to alfadriver:
Oh yes, yes you can. Modern F1 cars are very much the "steak and potatoes" of the Euro and Japanese model manufacturers. Hasegawa, Tamiya, and Revell of Germany all make superb F1 models. This is the one I have for the conversion:
GameboyRMH wrote:alfadriver wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: but as can be seen how they treat French driver Grosjean- it matters. They may be called Lotus, but they are very much a French team.They're a French team? They're headquartered in England and have British guys on the radio...
Force India are an Indian team, but they are based in the UK. Ferrari have always been an Italian team, even though they have been based in the UK in the past. Mercedes are a German team even though they are based in the UK. The Motorsport industry is huge in the UK, most of the suppliers are there so even if a team identify's itself as from another country, most are still based there. Heck Rodger Penske used to build his cars in the UK.
Lotus is still very much the Renault team, even after they were dicks and tried to steal the Lotus name off of the previous Team Lotus (now Caterham).
Javelin wrote: In reply to alfadriver: That reminds me, I really intend to build a modern McLaren F1 car in the classic dayglo orange/white Marlboro colors. I *love* that livery.
Only a side view, but better than nothing
My comments about Lotus and Kimi are based on their communications, primarily social media. It's all Grosjean, Grosjean, Grosjean now, when it used to be about Kimi. And, of course, the nice little radio message they broadcast last weekend. You don't retain the Kimi fans by yelling at him over the radio. And that's going to hurt the team.
I'm obviously not invested enough in this race series to be able to discuss it with hard-core fans. I follow the tech via Racecar Engineering and I watch (most of) the races. But I don't care who owns the teams or who they're pretending to be. Yes, the JPS livery may not be completely appropriate for the cars - but it's also one of the best looking setups on the grid. Let's hope McLaren goes papaya next year when Vodaphone leaves.
Both Kimi and Alonso can actually race, which is not something that's struck me as being a strength of Vettel's. So there might be some fun in store for us next year.
Keith Tanner wrote: Let's hope McLaren goes papaya next year when Vodaphone leaves.
Oh please yes, oh please yes, oh please yes...
FWIW, as much as I disliked Renault/Lotus, I really loved the JPS livery redux.
You'll need to log in to post.
