Also- I just drive through San Francisco- dedicated parking lot at the airport with plenty of room.
Also- I just drive through San Francisco- dedicated parking lot at the airport with plenty of room.
Teh E36 M3 said:Also- I just drive through San Francisco- dedicated parking lot at the airport with plenty of room.
In this case I think you'll find very little difference commuting in either the F-150 or the F-250.
SV reX said:Guess we need more info...
I assumed older vehicles, because the price tags of new ones seem absolutely absurd for this small a towing duty, but that's just me...
Do we know a price range we are talking about?
Sorry- I'm willing to spend what it takes to be comfortable and safe. I can "afford" the 350 diesel, but don't want to waste money on overkill for overkill's sake. The 250/350 diesels are at the high end of my range. Point is to have a livable adult commuter/tow vehicle - I'd love a Lariat trim because it seems just a bit nicer than the more work duty XLT, which I think is equivalent to what I have in my current SLT Ram 1500. Lots of plastic.
Also, I want to buy new with warranty. Sorry about not being very grassroots, but I finally have the money and don't want to waste any energy or time fixing an appliance.
In reply to Teh E36 M3 :
I don't have a problem with it... I drive a non-grassroots Platinum!! Haha!
In reply to Teh E36 M3 :
For your towing needs, I don't think any of your choices would not be "safe".
"Comfortable" is more a decision for your own butt-o-meter.
Personally, I wouldn't want anything to do with an F350 (for your needs). Waay too stiffly sprung for comfort (without decent load on it).
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:Sure, you could upgrade the standard F-150 and add E rated tires, air bags, aftermarket hitch receiver, etc. You're looking at a couple grand in upgrades. At that point you're probably saving money to get a lower end F-250 and still have a much more capable truck.
The hitch is a few hundred, basic airbags are super cheap. Load range E tires are a bit overkill for that level of towing and make the truck ride like garbage any time there isn't a trailer connected. Even adding in $500-1k of upgrades, the same money gets a considerably more stripper model f250, that is probably marginally better at towing but will be much worse at the other 2/3 of OP's intended usage.
Teh E36 M3 said:ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:Decide what chassis you need, then decide what motor works best for your application. I'll assume for the moment that we're talking about newer vehicles and provide my experience.
I recently moved on from a 2013 F-150 Crew Cab 3.5 Ecoboost. I used it to tow my 7k-ish enclosed race trailer, so similar weight and aero to the OP's camper. The 3.5 was very reliable and had decent gas mileage; I saw around 14mpg city and 18-19 highway unloaded. It was manageable for city driving but far from optimal. Parking a full-size truck in the city is a PITA. The motor was fine for towing the trailer, but pretty thirsty (9-11mpg) and small fuel tank meant lots of gas stops. The chassis is the reason I ultimately moved on. Trailer hitch had a maximum 500lb tongue load, so a weight distributing hitch was mandatory. Payload was restrictive at 1610lb. With 800lb of tongue weight, 100lb of weight distributing gear, and 200lb of me, I only had 500 lb left for other people or stuff while towing. I made it work for a long time but I grew tired of the constant planning and dealing with the weight distribution gear on race weekends.
I moved to a 2020 F-250 Superduty a few months ago. The 6.7L diesel was way overkill for my needs, and I couldn't justify the $10k premium to get one. Diesel gas is horrifically expensive right now, and they're super complex/expensive to maintain. Everybody's talking about the 7.3 gasser, but it's actually less fuel efficient than the base 6.2L motor and comes with the 10 speed auto trans that's still giving a lot of people issues. I opted for the 6.2L with 6 speed trans, and I'm happy with my decision. For daily duty I get around 13mpg city and can get around 18mpg highway if I drive the speed limit. It's slightly more miserable for city driving because it's taller and longer than the F-150, but it's the same width and has a better turning radius so the difference isn't as great as you would think. I find it very comfortable when unloaded, certainly no worse than the F-150. Even though power/torque are about the same as the 3.5 EB, the SD chassis is far superior for towing. 3500lb payload and 1350 tongue weight mean I just hook up the trailer and go, and never worry about how much I'm carrying. It gets around 12mpg towing the trailer, and the 36 gal tank means much better range. Even without the WDH it's rock solid when towing.
I think a F-150 3.5EB with max payload package would be ideal for the OP's needs, but they're rare as hen's teeth and command a premium price. He could certainly manage without the max payload, but there's extra planning/hassle involved if you're traveling with a family of four and their stuff. For similar or even less money, an F-250 with the 6.2L/6 speed is a much more capable truck that should also be more reliable. If I had to do it all over again I would make the same choice.
Why not get a cheap easy car for the commute? 20 year old Civic, Corolla, etc. My ND Miata gets most of my city driving. I would quickly come to hate a full-size truck if I had to drive it around downtown San Francisco very often.
You nailed my issues- 8-900lb tongue weight and payload capacity - especially with camping gear, are my concerns. That's why I'm cross shopping the 150 and 250.
Id rather do the commute and tow with the same vehicle, which pushes me toward f150.
The F150 tow package has a capacity of 14,600# and feels very comfortable up to 11,000# ( the heaviest I've towed thus far).
The F250 is too stiffly sprung for me.
Yeah the tow ratings are numbers ad berkeleyery- the limiting factor for almost all towing is payload capacity. My current ram has a 948lb payload but they claim it can tow 9000lb. So with a 10% tongue weight, I could weigh 48lb. So I guess my dog could tow 9000lb.
But- I'd wager your payload rating is t as abysmal as mine- you probably have a 1650lb payload sticker?
I generally prefer pretty basic trucks, so that may be a factor here. When I build trucks adding only the options I really want on Ford's website, I end up with an F250 cheaper than an F150.
I also tend to own vehicles with high mileage, so that factors heavily in my decision making. I'm less comfortable with a high mileage turbo engine, especially if I'm buying used.
If creature comforts are important, and you aren't planning to drive it 200,000 miles, a half ton might make more sense.
I have 235K on my 2012 F150 EB. I drive it 1000 miles per week. No issues.
If you're planning to buy new and can actually find what you're looking for, sounds like a Max Tow F-150 3.5EB Lariat is exactly what you need. I thought you were looking for something used; there are very few of them available on the used market. They're also hard to find used because 90% of the sellers don't actually know what they have so they don't market them as Max Tow package.
That said, I really like my F-250 and would not go back to a half ton. ;)
My plan is to buy new, using the X plan. The local dealer will only honor the x plan on custom orders which is fine because I want a supercrew 6.5' bed anyway, which are difficult to find on top of the already scarce nature of new cars. And I'm not in a huge hurry.
Max tow might be the ticket with a lariat and just push the "I believe" button wrt payloads.
Any other thoughts on the 5.0 vs 3.5 EB?
In my humble opinion the 3.5 is the superior motor, but it will probably have more little stuff go wrong if you keep it long enough.
It seems like that is the case, with marginally better mileage- the longevity does concern me a bit exactly as you say. I can't let go completely of the 5.0 because the noise is very nice, especially for a truck.
and Ford offers this, which, while very pricey, is 50 state legal and comes with a 3/36 warranty.
I daily drive a 2019 F250 6.7 xlt. Early in this trucks life I towed often, 2-300 miles per week.
Now I tow less, but would absolutely get the F250 again. I adjust my load range E tires based on what I am doing, it makes a big difference in the ride. Currently 65 in the front 55 in the rear (empty bed).
I would get the 7.3 gas if I were purchasing today based on my reduced towing.
I've had zero issues with the diesel or DEF, but my truck gets up to operating temp on every drive and that seems to help emissions longevity.
Edit to add: crew cab short bed (6.5 ft)
I didn't do enough on the 5.0 to know much about it (other than not being a fan of the VDE system that might go into production soon).
But the take rate for the v6 has always surprised me. Back when I first started working on the DI motors back in 06, I thought it was crazy to offer a twin turbo v6 vs an NA v8. But customers have proven that wrong for over a decade now. Seems that it says something about the v6.
In reply to alfadriver :
Huh. That's interesting...
On the streets, it appeared that Ford was trying to phase out the V8 with the introduction of the EB, but old school buyers pushed back (wanting a V8, and not liking the complexity of the EB), so Ford brought back the V8.
Guess I was wrong. Sounds like you are saying the intent was always that the 2 engines be offered side by side.
alfadriver said:But the take rate for the v6 has always surprised me. Back when I first started working on the DI motors back in 06, I thought it was crazy to offer a twin turbo v6 vs an NA v8. But customers have proven that wrong for over a decade now. Seems that it says something about the v6.
Torque. When I got my 2011, I drove both. The V8 sounded better, but the Ecoboost had more low-end oomph, and had slightly better EPA numbers. It was an easy choice, IMO.
In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :
I wonder if you've driven the flex fuel version of each? The tire shredding torque of the V8 is exciting when it's drinking E85. It does tend to wear the back tires a bit early. But it sure is fun.
With regard to EPA numbers, isn't the goal to inform the purchaser about costs? While mileage goes down the cost of E85 goes down much more. The result is a very nice savings.
Thanks everybody- I have a lot to ponder- going to get some firm weights on my trailer to verify my payload needs and make a firm decision hopefully by the time the order books open for 23.
frenchyd said:In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :
While mileage goes down the cost of E85 goes down much more. The result is a very nice savings.
Lucky, out here e85 is like ten cents a gallon cheaper than 87. Makes flex fuel completely unreasonable, though it had never caught on in the first place. Plus either engine will do a burnout just fine on 87 octane.
frenchyd said:In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :
I wonder if you've driven the flex fuel version of each? The tire shredding torque of the V8 is exciting when it's drinking E85. It does tend to wear the back tires a bit early. But it sure is fun.
With regard to EPA numbers, isn't the goal to inform the purchaser about costs? While mileage goes down the cost of E85 goes down much more. The result is a very nice savings.
The 3.5 EB absolutely out-torques the 5.0. The 5.0 has quite a bit of grunt, but the 3.5 feels like a diesel that learned how to rev. IMO, it's the better truck engine of the 2. And being a smaller engine, it'll get a little better fuel economy when you're being light on the throttle (but that goes out the window as soon as you lean on it).
dps214 said:frenchyd said:In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :
While mileage goes down the cost of E85 goes down much more. The result is a very nice savings.
Lucky, out here e85 is like ten cents a gallon cheaper than 87. Makes flex fuel completely unreasonable, though it had never caught on in the first place. Plus either engine will do a burnout just fine on 87 octane.
Wo, my closet gas station is $1.20 a gallon cheaper !! No, at a dime a gallon I'd only buy it if I was using a turbo. ( it's about 100 octane)
3.5 Ecoboost is a real gem of an engine - 20+ MPG on regular all day long in mixed driving, still moves an F150 pretty well. Almost 24 MPG on the highway at 55. Can't beat that in a fullsize.
If I was doing any more towing than a borrowed popup to camp an hour away once a year, I would get an F250. They just tow so darn well, being longer, heavier, better tires, so on so forth for towing. Not any worse on the highway other than maybe a rougher ride.
I would get a 6.7, because 3/4 ton trucks should be diesel. Its not the economical choice, but its what the heart wants.
SV reX said:In reply to alfadriver :
Huh. That's interesting...
On the streets, it appeared that Ford was trying to phase out the V8 with the introduction of the EB, but old school buyers pushed back (wanting a V8, and not liking the complexity of the EB), so Ford brought back the V8.
Guess I was wrong. Sounds like you are saying the intent was always that the 2 engines be offered side by side.
They probably need the sales volume that the F150 offers in order to justify keeping the 5.0 around for the Mustang. IF the 5.0 were to be removed from the F150, then there's nothing but the Mustang left that uses it, and that's really not a ton of production/sales.
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