Can someone say what the mileage difference is on flexfuel cars between gas and E85? Everyone talks about how E85 is cheaper, but depending how much E85 mileage suffers, that advantage could be markedly less. My turbo play car gets roughly 30% less mileage on E85.
In reply to SV reX :
I've been flirting with selling my 2015 Expedition Platinum so I can eventually get myself into a 2019+ eco-boost F150 or 7.3 F250 depending on supply and or if I move my money elsewhere.
In reply to yupididit :
El or regular? I'm looking for rusty suburban replacement.
My friend picked up a '17 SuperCrew Shortbed F150 4x4 with the 2.7 EB motor. I drove it, it had very good power and was very comfortable. He tows his '15 Mustang GT on a rented Uhaul trailer (heavy). He added airbags in the bag to help prevent sagging, and said the truck/trailer combo worked really well. With the fact that you're towing an enclosed with more weight, I think the F150 with the 3.5EB would probably work really well for you, and give you some more comfort when you were commuting. Getting the trailer weighed is a good step though, and I'm sure that'll help you to finalize the decision.
kb58 said:Can someone say what the mileage difference is on flexfuel cars between gas and E85? Everyone talks about how E85 is cheaper, but depending how much E85 mileage suffers, that advantage could be markedly less. My turbo play car gets roughly 30% less mileage on E85.
If your car has the program that advances the timing to take full advantage of flex fuel it won't be a significant difference.
Here's why. E85 can have between 50& 86% ethanol. Gas stations tend towards higher percentages of alcohol in the warmer months and lower percentages in cooler months.
Typically it's around 100octane. Which because of the higher octane and alcohols's cooler evaporative temperatures is safe to advance the timing and also increase fuel pump pressure. The computer does that automatically measuring the O2 in the fuel and adjusting accordingly. Which results in greater mileage However some CPU's don't have have that capability. Any Flex fuel vehicle will have it and most domestic will also have that program although without the sensor it's not going to work.
As a result of that and the fact that your car hasn't been tested with the use of E85 your results really will differ.
One final issue. How much of what fuel do you have when you fill up? The sensor measures Oxygen content and will over time learn how much it can safely advance the timing.
My actual experience in the 2016 V8 (4 valve per cyl. 5.0 ) is it costs me about 2 mpg. I go from 22-24 to 20-22 mpg. But then if I act like a little kid instead of driving it reasonably my actual fuel mileage drops significantly. Plus the computer is learning bad habits. And I need to drive civilized for a while to get the computer convinced I really do like good fuel mileage.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
EL 4x4. I'm pretty sure it has max tow package. It has all kinds of factory towing add-ons. I think all of the platinum trucks were equipped this way. It has just over 100k miles and gets oil changes every 5k miles. I do plan on buying shocks for it whenever they're available, Bilsteins have been on back-order since October. It's my dd right now, because I just started going into the office everyday and the XJR gets worse mileage and sucks in the rain lol. I'm actively looking at cheap dd's so I can park the Expedition and do some work on it.
Looking at the market for these SUVs kind of surprise me, they're pricey used.
In reply to frenchyd :
For sure the 3.5 outperformes the 5.0 in everyway when placed in an identical chassis. The 5.0 certainly sound way better!
In reply to yupididit :
Yeah they range from $25k to $45k
For my purposes, cost isn't the biggest object in the decision- mainly capability and convenience. That said, I hate getting terrible fuel economy so likely the 250 7..3 gasser is out. I love the idea of the 5.0 and crazy expensive supercharger for a 700hp daily f150 even though I know it's stupid. That's my emotional choice, but I'll see if I can't drive both and see which feels best.
In reply to Teh E36 M3 :
Would'nt the supercharged 5.0 F150 get the worst mpg's out of all the other options?
It is very interesting to see all the positive Ford experiences here. I have several friends locally who get new trucks evern 3-5 years, and we all race dirt bikes so plenty of towing, payload, hauling people, etc but generally not terribly heavy. Everyone had GM trucks until a couple years before COVID and switched to the Fords because they preferred the driving experience (specifically Chevy trans tuning and shock calibration were pretty bad in the last generation according to them). Couple have 5.0s, couple have 3.5EB, one bought a diesel Transit, all between 2016 and 2018 All of them have had endless issues with all kinds of stuff. Water leaks, transmission problems up to and including trans rebuilds, electrical infotainment issues, one has a panoramic sunroof that hasn't worked right since day one, wheel bearings bad in less than 40k miles, and two of them have had to have the rear axles rebuilt (!!). The engines have been great at least, and they really are nice when they are working right, but all but one are planning to get out of F150s if car prices ever come down enough that they can afford it. The Transit at least seems to be good now that it is on transmission number 3.
I don't know that the other brands are any better or worse with the latest trucks.
The 3.5 EB is a solid engine for towing and mileage at least. We rotate around who is towing with the same 7x16 enclosed dual axle trailer - the 5.0 gets 7.5-8 mpg, the 3.5EB gets 10.5-11 mpg, and my 8.1 suburban 2500 gets 9-9.5 mpg all pretty consistently. Unloaded, that's 16 mpg, 22ish mpg, and 13.5 mpg respectively last time we were all talking about it.
With regards to 1500 vs 2500 and the "feel" of towing, the total tow rating of all these is around 12,000 lbs but the Suburban is the only 2500 and the only one where the trailer doesn't move the truck around at all. Also the only one with load range E tires though.
As a data point, I just drove from Atlanta to Charlotte and got 19mpg highway from my 6.2L V8 F-250 going 70-73. My 3.5EB F-150 gave me 21.5 under the same conditions. Given the size difference of the trucks, aero may be a bigger difference than the motors in terms of efficiency.
I find it interesting that the most asked about car on the forum is the F150, I was never a Ford guy until I was assigned a 2018 F150 in 2018. 5.0, 10spd, 4x4 super crew. It was great in almost every way for 162,000 miles. 24,000 of those were towing a trailer. 18.9 combined mpg for that time. When it came time to order a replacement in May '21 I requested the same truck but as a '21. It arrived as the same truck in April '22 and has 13,000 miles on it. The trans is programmed differently and I don't like it nearly as much. It hunts more but otherwise has been much the same. After reading all these threads it seems the overall is that there are duds but they are few and far between.
Edit: the new truck is 22.3mpg on the miles so far.
yupididit said:In reply to Teh E36 M3 :
Would'nt the supercharged 5.0 F150 get the worst mpg's out of all the other options?
Allegedly dudes are saying (on the internet, of course) that under normal driving conditions they are seeing the same mpg as stock. Allegedly. With a very small sample size.
chandler said:I find it interesting that the most asked about car on the forum is the F150, I was never a Ford guy until I was assigned a 2018 F150 in 2018. 5.0, 10spd, 4x4 super crew. It was great in almost every way for 162,000 miles. 24,000 of those were towing a trailer. 18.9 combined mpg for that time. When it came time to order a replacement in May '21 I requested the same truck but as a '21. It arrived as the same truck in April '22 and has 13,000 miles on it. The trans is programmed differently and I don't like it nearly as much. It hunts more but otherwise has been much the same. After reading all these threads it seems the overall is that there are duds but they are few and far between.
Edit: the new truck is 22.3mpg on the miles so far.
The new one is a 5.0?
Teh E36 M3 said:yupididit said:In reply to Teh E36 M3 :
Would'nt the supercharged 5.0 F150 get the worst mpg's out of all the other options?
Allegedly dudes are saying (on the internet, of course) that under normal driving conditions they are seeing the same mpg as stock. Allegedly. With a very small sample size.
Yeah and I tell my son's teacher that he's not an shiny happy person at all. But I know he is at times lol
yupididit said:Teh E36 M3 said:yupididit said:In reply to Teh E36 M3 :
Would'nt the supercharged 5.0 F150 get the worst mpg's out of all the other options?
Allegedly dudes are saying (on the internet, of course) that under normal driving conditions they are seeing the same mpg as stock. Allegedly. With a very small sample size.
Yeah and I tell my son's teacher that he's not an shiny happy person at all. But I know he is at times lol
Hahaha. Yeah, I'm sure you haven't detected one iota of me trying to justify a 700hp 5.0 to myself as a practical commuter and airstream tow vehicle. Sometimes I just need the sticker to tell me a lie so I have some culpable deniability with my other conscienceness.
In reply to Teh E36 M3 :
Just ask us and we'll tell you it's a logical choice!
In reply to yupididit :
Lemme know if you are interested in selling.
Teh E36 M3 said:chandler said:I find it interesting that the most asked about car on the forum is the F150, I was never a Ford guy until I was assigned a 2018 F150 in 2018. 5.0, 10spd, 4x4 super crew. It was great in almost every way for 162,000 miles. 24,000 of those were towing a trailer. 18.9 combined mpg for that time. When it came time to order a replacement in May '21 I requested the same truck but as a '21. It arrived as the same truck in April '22 and has 13,000 miles on it. The trans is programmed differently and I don't like it nearly as much. It hunts more but otherwise has been much the same. After reading all these threads it seems the overall is that there are duds but they are few and far between.
Edit: the new truck is 22.3mpg on the miles so far.
The new one is a 5.0?
It is.
I infer from your OP that there will be mountain towing. If that's the case, I'll have the 7.3. The smaller engines will need revs to keep your speed up, and down, steep grades. I hate having the engine screaming at 4500 or higher to keep speed up (or down) on I80 through Utah and California. I like a V8 that has enough grunt so the trans doesn't have to downshift a million times.
Yeah... one other thing about towing in the mountains, the 3.5EB's mileage will fall off a cliff when pulling up hill. Way worse thank the V8's in my experience. General rule of thumb is that if you can hear the turbos working, you can just about watch the gas needle going down in real time right before your eyes.
Hahaha. Yeah, I'm sure you haven't detected one iota of me trying to justify a 700hp 5.0 to myself as a practical commuter and airstream tow vehicle. Sometimes I just need the sticker to tell me a lie so I have some culpable deniability with my other conscienceness.
Far be it from me to dissuade anyone from supercharger shenanigans, but know that you'll never be able to get that power to the ground without a heavy load on the bed. With either the stock 5.0 or the 3.5 you can pretty much spin the tires at will at almost any speed.
Towing will be about 80% mountain from sea level to 8000' if that makes a difference. Despite my troubles with the 3.0 ecodiesel in the ram, that bastard would pull right up the side of the sierra and never show worse than 12 for a pull from sea level up past Truckee. Round trip currently puts me at about 14.5 with the airstream.
In reply to maj75 (Forum Supporter) :
When I was pulling about 8000? Pounds (trailer and car) up the mountains at 70 it pretty much stayed in 6th gear ( high) the whole way. I don't really remember it dropping down to 5th. Most of it was in cruise control but occasionally I'd flip it out of cruise and trade off a mile or two/hr so it wouldn't need to downshift.
I did love the silly fuel mileage I got going back down hill but overall the whole 2300 miles I averaged 17 mpg. That was all using 87 octane.
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