Falken Azenis RT-660 Tire Test: Autocross and Track

In reply to captainawesome :

Same.

Comparing their price to same size RE-71s they look to be about $40/tire less; significant difference.

Nice test guys!  I love how GRM gets the info out there. And how SCCA is promoting it, and you!

OTOH, your test of the Yoko 052 last year, I took it as, "eh, it's maybe a tiny bit faster", bought the RE71R's, then at Nationals /everyone/ in the trophies was wearing a set of 052's.  On the real side, probably not a great idea for me to chase a couple of tenths/minute when I'm seconds behind.... 

The wear issue: Since these were pinched a little, the shoulder wear is probably exaggerated.  It wasn't clear if the car used has additional camber control ("This pinched setup better replicates that found in C Street and Solo Spec Coupe competition" doesn't state whether it does, as SSC does have some suspension mods).  Could you guys clarify? 

If the tire burns off noticeably faster than an RE71R and costs $40 less, not so much of a good deal. The only size TR lists right now is the 225/45-17 which is indeed $43 less.

I had to chuckle at the beginning of the article were it refers to the asphalt at Mineral Wells as "grippy." I've driven quite a few events there and it is a fun venue due to its size (big, fast courses). However, grippy would not be my adjective of choice to describe the asphalt.  The surface is kinda crumbly and it shreds your tires as they slip over it.

RadBarchetta said:

In reply to _ :

If you're gonna go there... Dunlop has been using basically the same thing since the Direzza Z1. Bridgestone "stole" that pattern from the ZII. So if you're gonna rag on someone for copying it...

More importantly, Dunlop and Falken are both owned by Sumitomo.  So free sharing of tech across the companies is a thing.

Story time...

I once did some private consulting work for Falken...they wanted to replicate a tire test I had done and see how a couple of new variants of their tire would stack up.  Problem was, given the timing, one of the comparables was the then-previous-gen Direzza, so retail versions were long gone.  But when tires showed up for testing, there was a brand-new set of the older Direzza with current build codes.  They had them made.

PT_SHO said:

The wear issue: Since these were pinched a little, the shoulder wear is probably exaggerated.  It wasn't clear if the car used has additional camber control ("This pinched setup better replicates that found in C Street and Solo Spec Coupe competition" doesn't state whether it does, as SSC does have some suspension mods).  Could you guys clarify?

The test vehicle this time has 3 degrees of camber all around.  SCCA TT Sport 5 build.  STR-lite, in autocross terms. Lowering springs, Konis, bars.  The previous tire test story you mention (A052) has a sidebar on that car in the enduro tire test portion (RS4 vs VR1).

bigben said:

I had to chuckle at the beginning of the article were it refers to the asphalt at Mineral Wells as "grippy." I've driven quite a few events there and it is a fun venue due to its size (big, fast courses). However, grippy would not be my adjective of choice to describe the asphalt.  The surface is kinda crumbly and it shreds your tires as they slip over it.

The area we use for testing (far SW corner, top of the hill) is the best asphalt on the site, and has stayed that way for all the decades I've run there.  We also blow it off clean before testing.

The rest of the site varies between knife-edge rocks that cut tires ( a band down the east-middle), smooth and clean (far eastern band), and pebbly (rest of the site).  For national events, the site prep includes blowing off of the loose stuff, which then leaves a nice clean surface.  Local events typically only blow off the worst bits so "crumbly" is really just pulling the loose stuff out from the relief in the surface. 

So I'm good with "grippy".

captainawesome said:

The article mentions the wear rate looks to be more aggressive than the RE71, so I imagine the rt615k+ will still be the clear winner for reduced wear rate. Does anyone know if the 615s will be axed or is the 660 supplemental? Personally I'd like a set of 660s for autocross if price is similar to current 615 price, and a set of the 615s for track days.

We've been told that the 615K+ will continue, for now. 

_ said:

In reply to Andy Hollis :

Hey are the drivers in this blind as far as information? Do you guys get to know which tire you are testing Beforehand? Do you think results would change if the study was "blind" so to speak?

The drivers are not blind.  Too many cones would be hit that way, though I'm certain that we'd have no DNFs since we have thousands of laps on that test course and could drive it blindfolded  :)

On a serious note, i've done blind testing before and it does enhance your "spidey senses" when you have zero idea what to expect.  But it also means more "mulligan runs" and can also be more dangerous for track testing.  We chose the order carefully to use this as an advantage for testing purposes, not to give advantage to a particular tire.  And the bracketing results show this to typically be the case. 

Its also why we use two drivers, so personal bias does not creep in.  David prefers "sloppy" tires, like the Rival S or A052.  I prefer "crisp" tires like the RE71R.

Why does my Google Fu fail at finding anyone who has experience with the new 7/32" A052 in a dual duty (HPDE) environment. Wondering how many weekends would they remain streetable for to/from the track in rain.....

Is the new A052 a 2 weekend tire or a 5 weekend tire? 

From what I've seen in Lemons they are a 2 weekend tire.  Even lightweight cars are not finishing one day with them

Re: the AO52, I would like to try a set for autocross, but not until I get a trailer....

In reply to Floating Doc :

My car is trailered and I love them.

Andy Hollis said:

More importantly, Dunlop and Falken are both owned by Sumitomo.  So free sharing of tech across the companies is a thing.

SOME Dunlop tires are Sumitomo tires. The rest are Goodyear. Several years ago, there was a joint venture between Goodyear and Sumitomo that when dissolved, left a few Dunlop tires as Sumitomo entities. Basically, if it comes from Japan, it's a Sumitomo tire.

I believe the whole "Direzza" line is Sumitomo.

245/40/17's now listed in stock. Someone try them, see how they wear, drive them in rain and tell me whether I want them or not. 

collinskl1 said:

Andy Hollis said:

More importantly, Dunlop and Falken are both owned by Sumitomo.  So free sharing of tech across the companies is a thing.

SOME Dunlop tires are Sumitomo tires. The rest are Goodyear. Several years ago, there was a joint venture between Goodyear and Sumitomo that when dissolved, left a few Dunlop tires as Sumitomo entities. Basically, if it comes from Japan, it's a Sumitomo tire.

I believe the whole "Direzza" line is Sumitomo.

It's a weird thing.  Goodyear owns the US market rights to Dunlop.   But the US tires, despite Goodyear's involvement, are still made overseas in a Sumitomo-owned factory...just with Goodyear's spec.  This is why we get Direzza's a year after the rest of the world.  Goodyear has Dunlop tweak them for the US market.  That's my understanding.

I am unaware of any Goodyear-manufactured Dunlops.  Got a source for that?

FYI a handful of sizes have popped up on Tire Rack in 17s plus 245 40 18s. I imagine they will be rolling more out any day now.

Bringing this article back up to the top. The prices of the RT660 are below everything else in the class by a solid margin. They're offering 18" sizes up to 255 now.

I just bought a set of the 205 15's for my Fit to run at Road America this weekend.

in my 205 size.. RT660 are $121 each, RE71R are $137, Yokes and BFG's are $148-ish

On another forum I frequent there is a guy who works for Falken and he said the big sizes (315, etc) will be available in November.

I'm going through the math on these right now as well. However, if you factor in rebates on the Stones, the margin gets considerably slimmer if not less depending on size.

I kinda want to try these out for TT next year instead of hoping for a rebate though.

Bought a set of RT660 in 215/40/R17 for my 2017 MX-5 due to the price difference to the A052s which I am currently running. Ran both back to back over two days at Sonoma and found them to be both within 100th of a second of each other. I am impressed based on the price delta compared to the A052s. Interested to now see how long they last in comparison.

I assume the article has tyre pressures hot? I think I might have been running mine a little warm at 32PSI.