Fast, reliable, and cheap... Pick any two.

In reply to PHeller:

I would assume so, assuming the underlying problem here is weird harmonics causing things to break running the motor in its powerband constantly, that were not predictable back when those engines were designed.

Though my gut feeling is the problem lies more in poor tuning, cooling (oil or water), or just built past what the stock shortblock will take. Which explains the ford blowing up slightly less. A Ford costs more money to make faster based on the commonality of used speed parts, so its slightly more reliable.

I'd bet you could flog a stock or a bit past stock cheapo truck LS around the track for years without issue. Because they had the power to design it to never rattle itself to bits running near redline 24/7, that and a more rigid deep skirt block.

So then it's safe to say a stock or mostly stock V8 of either make swapped into a light vehicle like an FB RX7 or NA Miata would be just as if not more reliable than a modified rotary or turbo 1.6l while producing similar power?

PHeller wrote: So then it's safe to say a stock or mostly stock V8 of either make swapped into a light vehicle like an FB RX7 or NA Miata would be just as if not more reliable than a modified rotary or turbo 1.6l while producing similar power?

No. There are those around here trying. I can't remember the screen name, but he runs a small block chevy stock, at stock RPM, shifts at 5500, and they still blow up often.

tuna55 wrote:

PHeller wrote: So then it's safe to say a stock or mostly stock V8 of either make swapped into a light vehicle like an FB RX7 or NA Miata would be just as if not more reliable than a modified rotary or turbo 1.6l while producing similar power?

No. There are those around here trying. I can't remember the screen name, but he runs a small block chevy stock, at stock RPM, shifts at 5500, and they still blow up often.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/what-kind-of-car-do-you-lemonschump-race-and-how-w/63786/page1/

It was wvumtnbkr

Nobody's mentioned RX-8s. Any thoughts?

PHeller wrote: So then it's safe to say a stock or mostly stock V8 of either make swapped into a light vehicle like an FB RX7 or NA Miata would be just as if not more reliable than a modified rotary or turbo 1.6l while producing similar power?

Not one based on 60s tech. A LSx, OHC Ford, whatever Dodge makes now, probably.

I don't necessarily believe the 302's are bad for endurance. Our unknown condition carb'd 302 had 50-60 hours of racing on it before it stated having issues last race (burnt valve?) and started overheating and eating spark plugs. It ran a 14.0 at the challenge breaking up in the upper RPM range and with poor 60' times.

We are probably going with a 4.8 LS now to make tuning easier and more power all around. I am not aware of any real issues with 1st gen LS1's on track but have heard of newer Corvettes on slicks eating motors on sustained turns.

IIRC, the small-block GT40s had constant head gasket problems. But that was a few years ago...

PHeller wrote: If small block Chevys have problems in a track environment, do small block Fords suffer the same fate?

Google broke crank A Sedan 302.

Any further thoughts on the rx8? I didn't realize how cheap they were. I do seem to see a lot around 100k with new engines. Rather concerning.

They're mostly good cars, but they have a couple of problems related to the nature of a rotary engine - the old saying is they "eat gas and E36 M3 apex seals" (although I hear it's usually other seals that wear out first...point is they need rebuilds regularly and make gas disappear fast).

If you see one with a new engine you want, that's the best way to get one.

bigmackloud wrote: Thoughts on the Mini Cooper S? They seem to be a bit cheaper than the S2K. As a reference point, there's an '03 MCS on CL, 91K, for $7750. Weak points? Any "must-have's" for track prowess? I know on the supercharger models, changing the blower pulley offers some quick and easy HP.

Weak points. They leak oil, the crank pulley goes bad, the coolant tank on earlier ones breaks, the strut tops can mushroom over time (esp. when lowered or subjected to hard cornering), they are pretty good at eating front control arm bushings, the fan on the electric power steering is known to fail...

They are fun cars to drive but they are also a complete pain.

I am a huge fan of BMWs or Miatas so I would pick the FB RX7.

I chose an NA 944 for exactly the purpose you outlined. After a year with the car, I think a C4 Corvette would have been a better choice. The 944 is frustratingly slow and parts really aren't that cheap.

Since we're discussing everything, what about the BMW Z3 or Z4?