FB vs FC with v8 vs a miata?

Just curious what are the pro's and cons of the FB vs FC platform when swapped?

How do they compare just in general for being made to handle compared to the benchmark of the miata?

paging keith

Well heres one thing, the FB has recirculating ball steering so the steering feel on that would be terrible compared to a Miata.

kanaric wrote: Well heres one thing, the FB has recirculating ball steering so the steering feel on that would be terrible compared to a Miata.

While the FB steering has been much written about, I will race your Miata with my FB any day.

Adjusted correctly it is not at all bad, worn it is quite bad.

For the OP, 309 RWHP, 2500lbs, 10 million smiles

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/rx50-project/33672/page1/

If I'm not mistaken, you can fit WAY more rubber under an FC, and it still has a very, very good suspension setup. A V8 FC is very, very capable.

If you fit a V8 under the hood, surely you can fit wider rubber, I have 225s under my stock bodied 5.0 FB.

I also am a big fan of a solid rear axle, some might say it has been quite well developed in racing in such cars as Nascar and V8Supercars.

The widest tire you can "reliably" fit under teh front of an FC is a 225. The rear can fit up to a 255.

Both rx7s have a mac strut front end. The rear of the FB is a watts link straight axle. An FC is IRS. The IRS on teh FC needs a little work to be good. You need to replace some bushings and get rid of the rear steer.

I race an SA (FB) and an FC. I like them both. The SA IS smaller and feels smaller. However, an FC is NOT a large vehicle.

Rob R.

FC's look better. End of story.

Try them if you can.

FB is and old school sports car (if you like MG's you will really like an FB). Small light very good handeling car for what it is and can be made better. Well sorted and well known set of mods ot make it in to a great ride.

I have had 5 or 6 FB's over the years. My preference was the 84/85 GSL. I liked the interior fit and finish and although it was a heavier car than the early ones it seemed to be a slightly more refined car (I consider the GSLSE its own separate animal).

With the FC you are stepping in to a much more modern car. the suspension is the biggest improvement. Weight can be an issue especially in the later cars but with a little strategic planning (and get an 86) you can easily have a street car that is well under 2500 lbs (mine was).

I think they are both great cars. I would drive either. Different driving experiences but neither is better than the other. Just different.

kanaric wrote: Well heres one thing, the FB has recirculating ball steering so the steering feel on that would be terrible compared to a Miata.

Doesn't someone make a kit to swap a Miata rack into the FB?

93EXCivic wrote:

kanaric wrote: Well heres one thing, the FB has recirculating ball steering so the steering feel on that would be terrible compared to a Miata.

Doesn't someone make a kit to swap a Miata rack into the FB?

Don't know, i've heard of people swapping FC stuff over though.

FC front subframes practically bolt into FBs.

you gain better suspension and rack and pinion.

Also, if you plan on doing a 13b swap from a later gen it makes it easier to bolt in.

93EXCivic wrote:

kanaric wrote: Well heres one thing, the FB has recirculating ball steering so the steering feel on that would be terrible compared to a Miata.

Doesn't someone make a kit to swap a Miata rack into the FB?

There are a couple of choices including a FC swap and a kit, but they don't work with the 5.0 swap due to the double hump pan and crossmember relocation.

I heart FB's and would have another in an eyeblink. Having said that, for a V8 swap personally I'd do FC. To me, FB's are more a lightweight tossable car and I'd prefer a rotary (or some other lightweight mid power engine) in one for that reason. FC's are heavier and need more power, bigger brakes are easily sourced etc.

And ChrisV: there's no way in hell I'd do a V8 in one with a slushbox.

Things I like about my miata

that nimble feeling of a short wheelbase and responsive car, the feeling of balancing the car on the throttle in corners, tires are 15" wheels and seem to last almost forever (at least my star specs with 110 autocross runs and a track day on them seem only broken in)

Things I don't like

with the race seat in place getting in and out is pretty cramped especially with the top up, I am a little closer to the roll bar than I would like when driving it without a helmet

How much smaller is the FB vs the FC, I do like the feeling of a nimble car my Focus SVT embodied that also

I had an '86 FC base model. I actually enjoyed how it drove and handled more than the miatas I've driven. More surefooted and planted feeling. I will have an FC again. Probably with an LS1 under the hood.

aussiesmg wrote: If you fit a V8 under the hood, surely you can fit wider rubber, I have 225s under my stock bodied 5.0 FB. I also am a big fan of a solid rear axle, some might say it has been quite well developed in racing in such cars as Nascar and V8Supercars.

Shrug. Nothing personal. In my opinion, the FC is a better candidate for 'way' more power, and fits more tire under stock fenders. Bigger stock brakes, IRS - which some might say has been quite well developed in racing in such cars as F1 and WRC. , strong stock LSD, easy swap, etc etc. I'd love to build one with an LS and T56...

To the OP - which V8? Thinking 2-300whp 302? or 4-500whp LSx? or?

I've owned a FB and raced a FC for a year, and while I will say the FC is the better platform, I absolutely hated that car. It was the most personality delete sports car I ever drove, and you had to force it to do anything. In the end it was decently quick, but fun it was not.

So in this I say you need to choose between fun or faster.

The LSD is only strong in some of the FCs. The S4 had a clutch type in both the NA and Turbo. The Turbo rear is much stronger (and a little larger).
The S5 had a viscous type diff. There were also large and small ones (not so strong and strong).

The NA LSD's are considered weak.

225s are the biggest tire you will fit on the front of an FC without mods. If you run coilovers and or a spacer, you may get more. It is a strut front end. At some point, the tire will hit the strut.

I have 225s on the front of my FC. I have about 3 degrees of camber in the front. I also have about 3/16" spacers in the front with stock wheels. I can just fit my finger between the tire and the strut. I have also rubbed the fender lip and had to roll them with this set-up.

Rob R.

The FC does have box flares which is always <3

I prefer LS motors but a 300hp 302 would seem like plenty of power for much less money.

Not sure what power to weight ratios we are talking about there.

I used to like FCs a lot more than FBs but FBs with flares look a lot better.

I prefer the SA and FB looks over the 2nd gen but that is subjective.

For a track car I would go with an FC / LSX swap. You have a better suspension and can fit 245's with minor mods.

For a street car/HPDE/Toy I would go with a 1st Gen.

The 5.0 T-5 is pretty easy and cheap in a 1st gen. Our Chump/Lemons car is a 79 RX-7 with a 5.0/T5. It is fast and fun. The car feels light and tossable. Having the V8 does not appreciably upset the balance. We ended up upgrading to FC front brakes then a ford rear to get a matching bolt pattern. The easier road would have been starting with a FC. Since it looks like our motor is shot after Daytona we are considering the $150 4.8 we picked up a while ago or a simlar 5.3 then running a T-5 after an adapter. Should eliminate messing with the carb, distributor, fuel starve in corners etc, make more power and be just as cheap to replace if needed.

One of our drivers has an track FC with an stock L33 (aluminum 5.3) with LS6 intake and "poor boy" long tube headers (5.0 headers w/ LS flange). Makes 290 rwhp and is backed by a T5. Runs take off mustang rims with 245 street tires. It is silly fast. On street tires at Road Atlanta he was ten second faster than the top Chumpcar running there at the last race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vyLv75teic&list=UUZ_VFbtlY3RUXT7b_GZHyWA&index=5

The FC front end is close to a bolt in the first gen but you then have mismatched bolt patterns and it makes the 5.0 swap more difficult. Should make the LS swap easier though. The R&P kit uses a mustang rack. It is made by RE-Speed and is good quality but since the business was sold a few years ago the new owner has had communication issues.

wvumtnbkr wrote: The LSD is only strong in some of the FCs. The S4 had a clutch type in both the NA and Turbo. The Turbo rear is much stronger (and a little larger). The S5 had a viscous type diff. There were also large and small ones (not so strong and strong). The NA LSD's are considered weak.

They are considered weak but I have yet to break one! or break an NA trans (aside from almost completly wearing out syncros) but no severe failure like blown pinions, teeth missing of a ring gear or in the trans have gears blown apart.

however: NA rear end is 7" ring gear

turbo rear end is 8" ring gear and the turbo half shafts are larger diameter, I'm unsure on the bearings for the axle though, I just assume that they are larger too.

but for performance oriented yeah VLSD are dumb, everyone wants clutch type but never wants to overhaul it because they have 100K miles or more.

Curmudgeon wrote: And ChrisV: there's no way in hell I'd do a V8 in one with a slushbox.

Aww, man, you needed to try out the modded box in that car. Shifts were fast and violent up and down. And only when you asked it to (though it would bark the tires hard into OD).

I really wish I still had it so that people could drive it and experience something different.

Hmm. I am kind of liking this idea. Next things on the miata are 15x9's and XIDA suspension. At that point the car is going to go from a total investment of 3,500-4,000 to over 7,000 into it

I like the idea of the easy swap to 5 lug and being able to use mustang wheels for cheaper wide wheels.

I would like an LSD, FB vs FC I could see either. Ideally I would sell the miata and maybe find a car already swapped to buy

You should be able to find LSX swapped FC's for +/- $10,000. I have seen them as cheap as $5000 (some projects under) but the quality increases with the price.

5.0 FB's should be well under from $1000 to $5000 depending on condition etc.