I think you're just determined to hate the car and for some reason like the mini, which has anything but a stepped reliability record.In reply to Bobzilla:
I think you're just determined to hate the car and for some reason like the mini, which has anything but a stepped reliability record.In reply to Bobzilla:
DaveEstey wrote: I think you're just determined to hate the car and for some reason like the mini, which has anything but a stepped reliability record.In reply to Bobzilla:
It's not just that, it's as if he doesn't want anyone else to like it either.
I see a lot of people saying that this car is impractical. I think that people have forgotten that it was designed as a city car. It's small, gets good gas mileage, it's agile, and did i mention it's small?
It's perfect for those who live in the city, but maybe not Farmer Fred going down to the Threshermen Show to find a used set of tractor weights for his John Deere 4430.
You guys realize its a tiny Fiat, right? You see a lot of North American people buying tiny cars built by a company whose lasting legacy is of unreliable, short lived, rusty 128's?
It was the wrong car to bring here to introduce the line. They should have brought over a sedan of some sort.
Yeah, that's the legacy of Fiat. Sheesh, man. How about leaving the 70's behind and join the rest of us in the new millenium? Fiats have been reliable for many years now.
Its a nicely styled, pratical little car. Looking forward to the Abarth.
I just don't get where the Fiat is "ugly". It's different, that's for sure, but I hardly consider it ugly. To raise the ire of our one Smart car defender, I do believe those bypass cute on the way to ugly. But aesthetics are a personal taste, so let's bypass that.
It's a cute car, and while practical, does not try to be everything to everyone. It's like the VW new Beetle; that car makes absolutely NO sense other than on an emotional level, but people buy them anyway. It's a niche market, and that is what the 500 is after. Whether that be a good or bad idea the market will decide.
On the marketing side, however, Fiat gets a grade of Epic Fail. I'm a big Fiat guy; I've owned 23 of the things during my driving tenure, and defended the brand for decades against the "Fix It Again" crowd. They failed here before for a lot of reasons, but bad product quality was not one of the bigger ones. A lack of dealers (especially good ones) and quality marketing were some of the bigger reasons. History appears to be repeating itself here. Unless the product is so good/desirable/successful that it can pull them through these other failings, it will once again be a rocky road for Fiat in the US. The only advantage they've got this time is ownership of ChryCo, but so far they are completely under-utilizing it.
I once read a journalist say, "The French and the Italians have never been able to figure out the US market." Still seems to be true, sadly (though I can't say I miss the French cars).
forzav12 wrote: Yeah, that's the legacy of Fiat. Sheesh, man. How about leaving the 70's behind and join the rest of us in the new millenium? Fiats have been reliable for many years now.
So have American cars, which for the most part never really reached the Fiat level of awful and many people still can't get past it. My wife mentioned wanting a new 500 convertible and two people told her to order it in brown so the rust wasn't noticible right away.
Most of the people who would look at these were born after Fiat pulled out of the States. Thus they won't remember the quality issues (which in all fairness plagued everyone, not just Fiat; look at how quick a 510 Datsun will rust!) and they are starting with a clean sheet, so to speak. But Fiat has marketed the thing as a 'lifestyle accessory' for those with excess disposable income, thus cutting out the main market for them: the average goob wanting to make it to work and back inexpensively.
On that: they damn well better be reliable. VW built a reputation on the Beetle which was about as cheaply made a car as ever existed. They were NOT reliable but they were cheap and easy to fix and that is where the legend began. The original Beetle would never make it in today's market. VWs today are not reliable when compared to Japanese cars (the world standard for reliability) but they coast along on the legend of the Beetle. Fiat does not have anything like that to fall back on so they are starting from scratch, so to speak, and they better get it right immediately out of the gate or they will have to pull out again.
Build quality is also a hard thing to pin down. The #1 consumer quality issue is brake noise and brake dust on wheels. (Somewhere along the line I remember reading that the Peugot sales manager for the US was asked what killed them in the US and he said 'squeaky brakes'.) As enthusiasts, we know this is a normal thing and don't look on it as a defect. I have had customers who would complain bitterly about not being able to keep the wheels clean, they would keep a rag in their trunk and while gassing up their car would wipe the brake dust off of the wheels. These are the same people who would buy those 'Kleen Wheels' aluminum discs for their cars, not realizing they were cutting off the cooling air for the brakes. 
On the styling: it's subjective. I personally find most new cars abhorrent, for instance everything Toyota makes looks like a snake from the front. The Fiat isn't as bad as some of the retro cars out there. I'm looking at you, GM; you BLEW IT with the Camaro.
One of my coworkers has one and she likes hers. So there. 
I'm looking forward to driving one. A 185hp Abarth convertible would be awesome. Awesome enough to seriously consider one.
I think the marketing is bad. In Kansas City, there is one "studio". It's out deep in the 'burbs. Nothing wrong with that if there's more than one, but your only dealer on an outer edge of the metro area known more for F350s than small, agile, gas sippers is a poor choice.
The boutique/studio was a bad idea when Vespa came back to the US 10 years ago or so. It's even worse for cars that cost significantly more. Tons of people will buy clothing from a "lifestyle brand", but few Americans will buy vehicles from one.
forzav12 wrote: Yeah, that's the legacy of Fiat. Sheesh, man. How about leaving the 70's behind and join the rest of us in the new millenium? Fiats have been reliable for many years now. Its a nicely styled, pratical little car. Looking forward to the Abarth.
Dude- I like Fiats. I still work on a couple of 124's, and when compared to an MGB, they are at least one order of magnitude better. There is a genetic memory out there, and I suffer from it too. I still can't recommend an Audi to people- I worked on 100LS and 5000's. I se a new GM, all I can think of is an 84 Cavalier...
I'm just sayin, they got a long row to hoe...
Rented one for 5 days in South Carolina. Good gas mileage, rode like my lowered Miata with the struts locked on stiff. You couldn't hear the radio above 45 mph because of road noise, unless you blasted it. We had to fold the rear seats down to put 2 pieces of carry on luggage in the "trunk". It still made us laugh everytime we saw it. Easy to park. Wouldn't want to pay for one or for the overpriced "studio" you have to have to sell them.
I'm sure I brought this up in the last 500 bashing thread. People keep comparing it to he Mazda 2, Fiesta, Mini etc. But the 500 is a sub B class, not a B class vehicle in Europe. It's exactly the same car as the Ford Ka, built on the same production line by Fiat for Ford. It's the next class smaller.
Personaly I like the 500, I think it looks better than any of the small car offering available here. The biggest issue for me is the interior is terrible. lot's of late 80's hard scratch prone plastic. Give it a better interior and undercut the Fiesta on price and they will sell more.
Gee and I like the interior. Quite spacious and I don't find it 80ish at all.
I had no idea they didn't have a Fiat dealer next to every Chrysler dealership cause that's the way it is near me.
Boutique dealers? What makes them boutique? They look like regular dealers to me.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: It's exactly the same car as the Ford Ka, built on the same production line by Fiat for Ford. It's the next class smaller.
i missed that somehow.
irish44j wrote:Snowdoggie wrote:IDK, I'm sure "Ford 500" is trademarked, but the number "500" can't be. Wasn't there a Mercedes SL500?irish44j wrote:I always thought the Ford 500 was named after the Daytona 500 or was a pace car at the Indy 500 or something like that, and if anybody owned the rights to the name, it would be a race promoter.Schmidlap wrote: I'm curious what Fiat would have called this if Ford had not changed the name of the Five Hundred to Taurus? Would they have just called it the '500' but insisted everyone pronounce it cinquecento and not five hundred?I don't know that Ford has a trademark on the number 500, lol. Especially considering Fiat was using it decades before! Or maybe they could sell the Ford 500 and the Fiat 500 as a combo deal. The fiat is the daily driver, and the overweight ford's trunk is used to transport it to the dealer when it breaks down (I kid I kid!)
Wasn't Porsche going to call the 911 the 901 but Peugeot had the rights to all car names with a zero in the middle? Or is that just an automotive ubran legend? Fiat may have 500 trademarked in Europe, but when the new Ford 500 came out I doubt they had it trademarked in North America, especially since Ford had been using it since the 60's. And SL500 is different from 500, not much, but it is different.
If it doesn't have angry scorpions and ridiculous race stripes all over it then i'm not interested.
Fiat needs to run a compercial campaign with a car similar to this one that tells car enthusiasts "Don't worry, it gets better"
Adrian_Thompson wrote: It's exactly the same car as the Ford Ka, built on the same production line by Fiat for Ford. It's the next class smaller.
Does this mean that "Abarth" == "Sport Ka"
JThw8 wrote: Not just this site. Its the Smart syndrome all over again. I've watched the smart car be trashed here and elsewhere when the facts are it was 16k loaded better than any other econobox on the market, it returned 43+ mpg for me over 100,000 trouble free miles and its quirky but fun. Everyone is still stuck in the "impractical" syndrome on these little cars when nothing could be less true. So few people need seating for 4 and hauling capability. My smart could haul almost anything I asked it to (and that was ALOT of stuff) and the 1 or 2 times a year it couldn't cover my needs I could rent a truck. It still came out much more cost effective. The same people who laud the miata trash these cars when in reality they get better MPG than a miata, they can haul more than a miata, they are more comfortable than a miata and they cost less than a miata. Granted they are not as sporting but sometimes that's just not what is needed in a car. For the few times in my day to day life I can enjoy "sporting" driving its better to have a toy around to play with. For the day in day out drudgery, I'll forego some sporting to get some utility and practicality.
This thread is so American it hurts (not pointed at JThw8). The exact same reason you guys never got Sprint/Firefly turbos after 88, because it has been shown that you'se guys have this obsession with big cars. 99% of people 99% of the time can use a car half the size of what they are currently driving. The Fiat 500 is perfect for a single person or couple who don't have kids and need a fuel efficient vehicle. You basically can't sell small cars to Americans, while up here in Canada it's NBD. I'm seeing lots of 500's (more of them than Mini's in fact, and the mini has been out for how long?) which I think points to the fact the 500 is a cheap, small run-about. It would suit my needs better (and IMO, doesn't look as stodgy as the Mazda2, while the Fiesta is downright effeminate) in sport trim. Even better in Abarth trim, which none of the current small cars are even hinted at getting more powa.
You are right in a large degree. After getting my Mini and driving it, I realized how superfluous everything larger really is. I told my wife if everyone drove Minis, we'd all be happier. 
Unfortunately, due to our vast distances and history of automobiles design and ownership, we can't seem to grasp the joys of the small car. Size also is used to indicate how affluent you are, so it's not just about practicality.
HiTempguy wrote: This thread is so American it hurts (not pointed at JThw8). The exact same reason you guys never got Sprint/Firefly turbos after 88, because it has been shown that you'se guys have this obsession with big cars. 99% of people 99% of the time can use a car half the size of what they are currently driving. The Fiat 500 is perfect for a single person or couple who don't have kids and need a fuel efficient vehicle. You basically can't sell small cars to Americans, while up here in Canada it's NBD. I'm seeing lots of 500's (more of them than Mini's in fact, and the mini has been out for how long?) which I think points to the fact the 500 is a cheap, small run-about. It would suit my needs better (and IMO, doesn't look as stodgy as the Mazda2, while the Fiesta is downright effeminate) in sport trim. Even better in Abarth trim, which none of the current small cars are even hinted at getting more powa.
I agree in part, but the mini was selling so well there was a wait. I still think it is as much marketing as anything. The only ad on TV I have seen for the 500 is the Jennifer Lopez abomination. Made me wanna go right out and buy one. NOT!! The car seemed to come second as a subject. That ad seemed geared more towards promoting Lopez than the car. The ad was even titled "MY World"! The car is practically invisible! Is it any wonder they are selling slow? I'll bet if I go to work tomorrow and ask around, 90% will have no idea a FIAT is for sale in the U.S.
How 'bout this: The Stig leaves his house and gets in a 500. He drives to a track and has a few laps of FUN. He then leaves the track and stops at the grocery store and picks up groceries. Then, stops for a drive through coffee. Back to the track for some more FUN, then off to the house where he brings in the groceries and with outstretched arms, meets his loving Mrs. Stig (also in matching race-gear) who runs past him to the car...
FUN! PRACTICALITY! LIFE! all in a 30secondorwhatever commercial. How hard is that? Show people why they would want to own this car!!!
irish44j wrote: I don't know that Ford has a trademark on the number 500, lol. Especially considering Fiat was using it decades before!
Ever see a Lancia Montecarlo for sale in the US?
You may recognize it better as the Scorpion.
Of course, the Fiat had been using the 500 name since 1936, while Ford only started using it in 1957...
(not going to bring up the Mazda 323/BMW 323 fiasco, or the Audi S4/Lancia S4 debacle)
I agree that we have been conditioned to large cars. I drive rabbits and have since I got my license, I am open to a fiat but I am also a cheapskate. Once they have a few years under their belts I will be buying a used one to lower (god does it need more low) and thrash.
I don't see any other car out there that really fills the quirky special niche like the 500. There are other cars that could but they don't. I see enough of them in this Ohio backwater that they can't be selling that badly.
I've always loved small cars as much as the big cars.
That being said, I would rather have my wife's 1970 Continental for a long highway trip than my 1982 Corolla.
I don't like the seating position of a lot of new cars. I like to stretch out a bit when I drive and the "monkey screwing a football" seating position of most new cars turns me off.
I haven't tried a 500 yet so who knows.
Shawn
I think the "lifestyle" stuff needs to be dropped. Just because it's Italian doesn't mean it's a Gucci handbag. Somebody American thought this whole deal up guaranteed.
They really do need to bump up the paper ad advertising (without J-Lo) because that's what Mini did and I think it had a lot to do with thier success amongst the masses. There were barely any Mini TV advertisements. They need to push mileage, agility, sportiness, and practicality.
Like I said before I like them and my wife likes them. She actually wants a convertible. I want to give Fiat a new chance. They are very popular overseas and I can't see why they can't be here.
I think Fiat should have tried to sell more than one model. It would have helped their sales numbers for sure.
You'll need to log in to post.
