First Project Opinions

My dad asked me if I want to do my first project car this year. I have a Nissan Pickup for a daily driver so a fun second car is a possibility. Apparently my aunt has a Triumph Spitfire that needed an engine swap but no one ever got around to doing it. So it's been parked in my grandparent's garage for the past 20 years. I want to inspect the car to check my confidence in being able to make it work. There is an engine and the European spec carbs stored in the garage also. After researching both Grassroots and Classic Motorsports forums I understand that there is plenty of support for the Spitfire. A couple of potential problems. The car might be pretty rusty or mice have eaten the interior. I'm not sure what the year it is. Living in California means if it is 1975 and up I won't be CARB exempt. Which sucks because I believe I won't be able to upgrade the carb or anything else and it will have to pass smog. Today my dad said that if my aunt won't give the car up or it's too much for me that we could pick up a 1.6 Miata.

I'm pretty torn down the middle. I want to learn more about mechanics and cars as I haven't had the chance to really learn by tearing into a car. It would be a great accomplishment for me to bring life to an old car. So the Spitfire is appealing to me because it's a simple, classic car. I think it would teach me a lot and I could uh... walk the walk and not just talk the talk so much if you know what I mean. But the Miata might be the better start for me. There isn't much tinkering involved and I could do whatever I want with it. I have emotional ties to Miatas since my dad taught me how to drive using his 2000 Miata. We still have the NB so it would be kinda cool with the father/son miata combo. I also want to start autocrossing and getting involved in motorsports for the first time and I'm curious how possible it would be to build both options into autocross ready machines. I don't care about being competitive...yet. Also, suggestions of other "beginner" projects would be appreciated. I'm on the college age budget here so realistic prices and brutal honesty is wanted.

Since you seem to be well aware of your capabilities it sounds like a Miata will be in you future soon.

The Spitfire sounds great but unless you have the tools/space/time/money to achieve your desired results it sounds like it would be a project destined to fail.

There is plenty to learn from wrenching on a Miata and it will be cheaper and easier to do. Get some experience from that car and take that with into bigger and more complicated projects.

Any chance to get both? Run the Miata and tackle the Spitfire as a father/son project? To me that would seem ideal as you would have a car that is capable of being auto-x'd pretty much right away while still saving the Triumph. Working with your father will also give you a chance to bond with him.

Cheap Miatae are cheap! Save your pennies and get a Miata and work on the Spitfire on the side. They are both really cool cars. You can do all the work on the Spit with a $199 (on sale) Sears tool kit. Don't be afraid!

I may be mistaken, but doesn't CARB say that older engines than the chassis are not acceptable with the then current smog stuff, and if the smog gear is current, you're good to go? There are LOTS of really good possibilities for swap fodder with modern (read, last 5-10 years) smog gear. Those that always come up are the Mazda families of engines, for small cars. And then there's the 5.0/AOD or /T-5 Ford combo. And the mighty LS series.

Like I said, lots of possibilities. If you set a Challenge-style budget, even a college type income might be able to deal with it. Keep your eyes open for something warmish, that is also smog legal, swap it and you're in.

If you do get the Spit, don't obsess over keeping it original. Do whatever you want that makes it lighter, cheaper and faster. Oh, and more reliable, since a lot of the Spitfire is made up of stuff that isn't. You will learn a lot about wrenching and it's pretty easy to work on. If it's a rust bomb though, avoid it.

Can't go wrong with a Miata.

combine the two! Miata drivetrain in a spit

@ david, I'm surprised that you would promote restomods. I think I used that term correctly. A couple of people I know were giving me crap about asking what shock/spring upgrades work and what drop in motor swaps are possible.

I could potentially get both. We have a three car garage. The Spitfire would be free. Actually in a perfect world my dad would let me autocross his Miata. He already whines enough when I drive it. I saw a couple of 240z cars that had decent mods, 5 speed/L28 swaps on them. But would these Miata's be decent starting points?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/2002420594.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/1996243713.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/1994786097.html

Isn't yellow a rare color? And it should be easy to take off that gay spoiler thing on the yellow one?

Ro-Spit anyone?

Its not going to be as plug and play as the Miata nor may you want to get as nutty with the power as they did here but there are lots of good tips and chassis tricks to be had here...

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/ro-spit/

I'm not saying Miatas are a dime a dozen, but Spitfires are less common.

What's a cheap Miata cost? I have no idea. Say it's $1000 - $1500; that's $1000 - $1500 that can be put into the Spit you already have.

I would a assess the engine and carbs first. Make the engine turn over then check the compression. If Auntie gives up the car, remove the seats and cloth bits, mouse pee stinks. It sounds like a decent project if you take your time and do the homework.

If you remember it's a 35 year old British car and have reasonable expectations you're well on your way to a satisfying reward.

Put up some pictures and remember, there's no such thing as a stupid question.

Dan

If you want to drive (soon): Miata

If your goal is to learn some wrenching: Spitfire

Best option, if it is an option, is both -like some have said already.

Assess, clean and test the spitfire. If its in your capability fix it up, if not... Sell it and buy something else. Either way - take the Spit home first.

From a guy with a half finished project stinking up the garage:

Don't get over your head. Any project that is going to take longer than six months is probably a bad idea at this time in your life. Real life starts fast and takes no prisoners. Projects should primarily doing something to an already running or already decent enough looking car. Don't go buying a rustbucket with no engine or transmission, because the entire project will take you forever. Buy something that needs an engine swap, but has a decent interior and a great body, or something like that.

Just an opinion from someone who bought a rustbucket with no interior. I bought it six months before I had a kid. It's been three years since then. I haven't touched it in seven months.

I was on a college schedule/budget, 2 other college buddies to help, 2 full time employed buddies to help, this was 2005, we started the project spring of 06 for the $2006 challenge with a $900 XR4Ti. August 2010 was the first time the car was driven at an AutoX. We started with much the same aspirations as you, much the same budget and time constraints, but life gets in the way, and it would be a couple more millenia before we'd ever get that car into a GRM challenge...

I'm not saying it's doable, but do not get in over your head, start simple, work up to silly challenge cars. I regret that more than anything because I kept missing challenges, and I figure half the point of the challenge is to BE THERE. That's why I got the Fiat, I'll be trying to make the $2011 challenge on my own with a full time job, wife, house, poodles, etc, on a fluid change, cam retime, battery, tires, some shiny bits, and a harness rewire (easy after the XR4 + Megasquirt). I'm not going to be competitive, but I'm going to have a blast, and still see the wife on the weekends.

Edit: I have to add though, that the years of work and ridiculousness of the build on the XR4 have resulted in knowledge and abilities far beyond anything any of us working on it expected when getting into the mess. While I regret not going to challenges, I wouldn't trade the knowledge or experience for anything because as Alfa just pointed out in the next post down, I can now pretty much do anything with regards to cars, and that means I know what things I DON'T want to do and thus avoid when buying new projects

tuna speaks of wisdom. I've got 3 unfinished projects- one 95% done- hanging over my head. It bugs me a lot to have that, but at least I have the means to just let them sit until I'm good and ready.

But don't let me talk you out of the Spit.

Very- on the other hand.....

A miata does not have to be a project- you can find a good 1.6 to learn to race in- and do step by step bolt ons- much like what GRM did with their various projects.

Whereas the Spitfire can teach you a number of different things- body work, engine work- all of them pretty straight forward on a car like that. And it's a perfect car to teach you the most important thing- are you cut out for projects like that? It's one thing to read GRM/CM, see all the projects, think you can do it- but TOTALLY different doing them. The Spit might be simple enough that you can get it done, even if half way through you learn you CAN do it, but you just don't want to.

I call that the This Old House/Hometime experience. I never want to work on my house, again, unless it's quite easy. I know I CAN do everything, but I'd much rathat not do it. I'm figuring that out with cars, too.

Anyway, if you can swing both- each will teach you important things- don't ignore any of that. You might be a driver who does not like to wrench... Or a wrencher who does not like to drive- or a driver who LOVES to wrench.

(but, if the Spit is too far gone- don't bother- somethings are better left becoming new products...)

I'll be the voice of dissention, depending on your goals. If your goal is to learn, really learn, get the Spit.

But make a plan, devise a timeline (then multiply by 3) and stick to it. Force yourself to put in at least 1 hour per week on the car, if the car sits without some attention you will loose interest and drive.

When we started our project a year ago I really thought we'd never make the deadline (7 months to complete) but having that deadline forced us to make time. Some of my teammates who were very unsure of their mechanical ability going in have walked away from this project with a new found sense of confidence when it comes to working on cars.

Im not saying you'll rebuild a spitfire in 7 months, be realistic with your goals. But you can do it and at the end of the project you will walk away with more knowledge and sense of accomplishment than you can imagine.

Im the king of dead projects, many of them have sat and stagnated and died in my hands. This being the case I really sat down and looked at my last project to see what was different and how it succeeded. For me the key was to always be doing something. Frustrated with trying to get the motor to run? Take a break from it, but not from the car, go sand the body or polish a hubcap. But always do something. The sense of accomplishment in one area will give you the drive and energy to go back and complete that other area you were struggling with.

And break the project up into parts. Trying to find a sense of accomplishment while looking at the whole is very difficult. But looking with satisfaction at a completed brake system checked off your list even though the rest of the car may be in pieces will drive you further and keep you going.

JThw8 wrote: I'll be the voice of dissention, depending on your goals. If your goal is to learn, really learn, get the Spit.

I'd echo this statement. The Miata will teach you to be a better driver, but the Spitfire will teach you more about turning wrenches. What's your goal?

If I had the space, I'd have a hard time ignoring a nearly free Spitfire. They're less common than a Miata these days, but common enough to be had for cheap. I'd find a pre-1974 title and VIN and become smog exempt, but that's just me.

I was in your situation when I was in high school. My dad found a 69 Midget for $300 and brought it home. I had dreams of refreshing it and upping the power a bit, then taking it autocrossing etc. It was my high school car, and I had to learn how to work on it while I was driving it (and depending on it to get me to school and work). It was a pain in the ass, as all the money I earned working went right into the car. That being said, it taught me a little about everything automotive related. I still have it 20+ years later, and it still gets me around.
If I was in your shoes, I would try to keep the project at 6 months or less. Agreed with Tuna and some others, you don't want to be that young have have that big a drag on your life. On the other hand, a spitfire is 10x as cool as a miata (yep, I said it), and you enter a realm of "cool eccentric guy" rather than the oft associated miata driver stereotypes. Women will want you, and men will want to be you.

Good luck with your choice.

Since you already have a pickup for DD and parts hauling go for the Spit. If you buy a Miata the truck will be redundant-no parts to haul and less fun to DD than a Miata.

Thanks for the input guys. Alfadriver, what you said hit me pretty hard. Truth is that I really want to be the driver. When I raced R/C cars during middle school I usually had dad help me put the cars together. Like a 30/70 ratio, me doing 30 percent of the work. I could drive the wheels off the thing but I didn't really care much for rebuilding them. For the past five years I have been racing bicycles and doing endurance sports so learning how to work on my own stuff was necessary and enjoyable. You would be amazed how many things can go wrong on a mountain bike and how creative you have to be during a 24 hour race in the rain...

I've always been interested in motorsports, but no one in the family has the car genes. I never really got to practice doing stuff to cars since nothing ever needed much help. Although I did learn a little bit when I parted out my civic si.

Which reminds me, @ junkyard, I love my truck. It's reliable, and it hauls my bikes around, I can drive it in the dirt when I go to a trail running race, or mountain bike race, or camping. I had an 89 Civic Si which I used for all of those activities. It was a great car but even in my short 20 years of life I've learned it ain't a sports car. And having a car trying to do two things at once, be my sports/recreation vehicle, sucked. I guess I was spoiled by already having a sports car in the family so I knew what I was missing.

I'll look at the Spit later this week, my dad sounds more interested in it than me. I would like a car that I could drive sooner and do simple modifications repairs to and learn how to be a good driver. It's just that I have a handful of friends that are all ex motocross and road racers that do track days in cars now. But they all do their own work and are good fabricators and mechanics. I feel like a total poser around them. So I guess it's time for a learn me cheap NA miata thread.

cyclecam90 wrote: It's just that I have a handful of friends that are all ex motocross and road racers that do track days in cars now. But they all do their own work and are good fabricators and mechanics. I feel like a total poser around them. So I guess it's time for a learn me cheap NA miata thread.

What's funny is that if you are a much better driver, they will think that they are the poser on the track. it's all relative, I suppose.