First time buying private party; what to expect/do?

Hi guys. I'm currently saving up for a NA Miata that I will hopefully be able to afford sometime next year. Every car I have had so far has only been purchased through a dealer, but I figure it is time to stop paying a premium at a dealer, and start looking at private party sales for this purchase. I have never done this before, so any help and tips would be appreciated! A few questions I have are:

1.) Is payment typically cash, or is there a different method usually used?

2.) Should negotiations be done before going to see the car, or after checking it out in person?

3.) What are some red flags to look for in a private party listing?

4.) What is the buying process like (specifically PA if possible)? Do I just hand the seller money, they give me the title and key, and I go to the notary to claim the title, or does the seller need to sign off on something?

As you can tell, I'm very ignorant when it comes to buying a vehicle like this, since the dealer usually does all the work for me, so any additional help and tips are appreciated!

Negotiate in person, after viewing the car.  From a seller's perspective,  anyone arguing price without seeing the car isn't a serious buyer and I'll end the conversation as quickly as possible. 

I've done cashiers checks and cash.  Personally I'm not comfortable walking around with 10 or 20 thousand plus in cash on me. Makes me Feel like a target. If you do cashiers check, verify the seller is ok with this, and offer to meet them at their bank so they can verify funds. Then bring a check for less than the listed amount, plus the difference in cash. This way you have the ability to negotiate the price based on vehicle condition upon arrival, while still not carrying huge amounts of cash. Anyone that demands cash on a car for more than a few grand, would make me nervous. 

I'd recommend not going alone, unless you're meeting in a public place. Don't need your whole crew, but there's some shady people out there, it's good to have someone else to back you up.  I've broken this suggestion several times myself without issue though.  

Can't help you much on title, each state is different. In Michigan the seller will have the title. If they owe money on it, there will be a lean holder listed on the title. If the lean isn't signed off  and dated, (usually stamped as well) they can't legally sell that car, and you're at risk of being scammed.  If no lean holder, the seller simply signs and dates the title in the space provided, you do the same and the transaction is done.  I also have them complete a bill of sale document, which can easily be found online.  Verify VIN documentation matches the vehicle. Ask seller for identification. verify the name on the title is the person you're talking to.  Titles are usually watermarked or have some type of counter-fitting measures in place.   

Red flags? Any listing that asks you to email at separate email in the listing.  Anything that's significantly under market price with no explanation. Images that are old or not consistent.  I reach out to the owner for more information. If they aren't willing to speak about the car in detail, I move on.  

PA sucks. You AND the seller have to find a notary that does cars, get there before they leave at 5(if you're really lucky, you'll find someone mobile or who does 24 hour on call), pay a bunch of extra fees for the "privilege" of not going to the DMV or just sending the title to the state and waiting for it. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE PROOF OF INSURANCE with you, sometimes this just means an insurance card but I've run into needing that specific vehicle on the policy even though you don't technically own it yet Heaven help you if someone has a Jr. or Sr. or something on their license but not the title or vice versa.

Notaries in my experience are about 60/40% useless lumps/actually helpful. Ask around for recommendations. If you're in western PA, avoid Norwin Messenger service like they're an AIDS infested plague rat. If you find a good one, keep their card, and use them often. 

Negotiate in person after you've seen the car. Low ball offers without even seeing it will most likely get you ignored or messed with. Remember YOU THE BUYER are on the hook for an inspection if the car needs one, unlike other states. If the stickers are expired, you'll have 30 days from time of purchaser. Hopefully you have a friendly inspection mechanic, if you don't have one, make friends with one or get recommendations from others in your area. Some are strictly by the book, some understand reality and guidebooks aren't the same, and some are just sketchy. 

You're going to have to pay taxes on the car purchased. Sometimes the seller will help you out with a lower price, sometimes the notary goes off blue book regardless of purchase price. 

Cash is typically preferred. It's also much easier to negotiate with a handful of cash. Of course depending on the amount of money or area, that's not always feasible or safe. 

Make sure they have a clear title in hand before you waste any time.  Plan on paying cash.  Sounds like everything else is hard in PA.  

In TN, no notaries, no inspections, no nothing.  Take a signed title to the DMV, pay tax, get a new title in the mail in 2wks.

In reply to Japanspec :

1) Cash or cashier's check from a bank is fine. Some people prefer to meet at the bank and exchange there. I sometimes take a deposit to hold the car until they can get a cashier's check.

2) I've sold quite a few cars as a private party, and not a single person that actually bought a car (locally) talked price before seeing the car. If you have to drive some distance negotiating beforehand may make sense. 

3) Quick/cheap flips, bad seller ratings (on FB marketplace), seller has multiple cars listed for sale, unwillingness to answer questions, weird explanations for noises, leaks, warning lights, etc. on car. 

4) No experience for PA and getting a notary involved. Generally payment and title are exchanged in person. Make sure the title is in their name, matches VIN, and such. 

The #1 thing I've learned, which is admittedly excruciating advice once you have The Car Bug:  don't even start shopping until you're ready to buy, then be patient.

Thanks for all the help guys! Since PA is so stringent with their titling and registration, what if I happen to buy the car in DE, NJ, MD, VA, or NY (for any PA people here who have done this)?

In reply to Japanspec :

Then you will be titling an out of state car in PA, which is just as, if not more, annoying. Unless you're planning to register it somewhere else altogether, which leaves you in a very weird position legally and insurance wise. 

Older thread about bringing cars to PA

You greatly increase you chances of title problems, because every state does things differently, and people suck on top of being idiots. If you're going to do that you need to make sure everything is up to snuff BEFORE you hand the seller the money and do what their state wants to make the title transfer to you. Even then, you're at the whim of the notary and PennDOT here.

I've bought a dozen cars privately in state. Aside from the one time dealing with Norwin Messenger, and that other time with my miata where the notary on the last transfer didn't add a Jr to someone's name, they've all gone fairly smoothly. Selling cars is where I've run into issues with people not having insurance documents/not being able to match schedules with a notary. 

What part of the state? Someone here may have a notary recommendation.

Cash is king in the range of purchases I usually deal in – roughly up to 7k or so. I will typically only have 100 bills (or less). Carrying bigger may suggest to a seller you have more to spend.

I would generally not talk price until I’ve seen and driven the vehicle. An exception may be if it is long distance.

I will have done research and have a printout with me. I will likely have asked question based on what the ad did not tell me. Based on those things I have a ballpark price in mind before I get there. I may or may not show it to the seller during negotiating.

Red flags for me are: lack of information, unwillingness to supply complete info, XXX was repaired but no receipts, missing title. There are more but that is what immediately comes to mind.

This is my kinda thing.  I always buy private party, and I live in PA.  Find a DOT notary.  You can't use just any notary.

It's not a terrible thing, in fact I find it to be a nice, one-stop solution.  Once you do all your negotiating and exchange handshakes and money, you find a local Automotive notary.  Sollenbergers are big in the midstate, AAA office (only free if the buyer is a AAA member), or there are multiple other automotive notary services.

Before buying, I like to call my insurance company to get a quote first.  Some of them have really odd pricing on vehicles that you wouldn't think were going to be expensive.  You can't purchase insurance without a VIN, but it will give you an idea of what to expect.  I also like to have the seller sign a bill of sale.  PA uses a black book value to determine what you should pay in tax, so if you buy a Miata for $500, the state might send you a letter saying "hey, you're trying to cheat us cuz that car is worth 2000."  Having a signed bill of sale gets you off that hook.  That's only ever happened to me once, so no biggie.  Don't sign the title yet, that has to be done in front of the notary.

Things you should take with you to the notary: 

• ID (obviously)
• The seller (if you're buying in-state)
• The car (if it's out of state, or a certain weight class for trucks) for a VIN/GVWR verification
• proof of insurance.  In PA, as long as you have liability insurance on another vehicle, you're covered for 30 days, so take your insurance card from another vehicle.  If you don't have liability on anything, call your insurance company and they can get you something.  IIRC, you give them something like $50 and they issue a card for liability insurance and then that $50 gets rolled into your first premium.
• take cash or checks just in case.  PennDOT only accepts these two payment forms.  It depends on the Notary whether or not they take plastic.  Some notaries just accept your check written to PennDOT and courier it to them.  Other notaries take money payable to the notary, then they write a check to PennDOT on your behalf.  I think all Sollenbergers now do plastic as an option.
• That's it.  They will hand you a registration and a license plate.  I have (rarely) encountered some times when they are out of plate inventory and they'll give you a temp tag and then your plate will come in the mail.  Whole process takes 15 minutes tops.  The notaries are connected electronically to PennDOT, so it's all done.  You now own the car.

If you're buying from out of state, you just have to gather some knowledge.  The way it works is you have to follow the rules of the state.  If the state where you purchase it requires notary for vehicle sales, you will basically do this process in that state first, then bring the notarized title to the PA notary.  If you're buying from a non-notary state, you just bring the title signed by the seller.

Above all, just call your notary.  Ask them what you need to bring them for a car purchased in [insert whatever state].  My most recent purchase was a van from NC.  I sat down with the seller and a notary and notarized the title.  I brought it back with me, Sollenberger's did a vin verification

I personally love the process in PA.  You walk into an office where there might be one person in front of you, write one check for the tax, registration, and fees, and walk out 15 minutes later with a plate and registration.  Title comes in the mail a few weeks later.

So, there is some etiquette.

Some people lie when the notary asks what the purchase price is to save on taxes.  I personally don't lie when I'm buying.  I just can't stomach it.  Saving $100 when I just spent $6000 is pointless for the headache it could cause.  If I'm the seller, I am only there for a signature so I keep my mouth shut and let them fill in the number on the bill of sale.  If they want to lie, it's on them.

There is also the subject of getting it home if it's out of state.  In-state it's easy.  Drive it to the notary on the seller's plate, then switch and hand them their plate.  For out of state, the plate and registration on it belong to the seller and don't get transferred.  Depending on the vibes you get from each other, sometimes the seller will say "just leave my plate on it and send it back next week."  That is something that is technically legal.  The car still belongs to the seller until you get a new plate, so you're effectively borrowing someone's car.  It could be risky as a seller.  If you get a parking ticket, use a toll road, or use the car to smash into a bank and make off with cash, it's a legal nightmare for the seller.

Some people borrow a plate from one of their own/other vehicles.  This is not legal, and if you happen to get pulled over or get into an accident it's a legal nightmare for you.

PA does not issue temp tags for transport.  They only temp tags they can do is if they ran out of plates, but they can't issue you a temp tag just to "get it home."  It is possible that the state you buy it in does do temp tags which is an option.  I had that option for the van in NC, but their notaries were by appointment only and booked for three months out.  I ended up putting the van on a trailer to get it home.

I have bought from MD twice, NJ once, DE once, OH once, NC once, and WV a few times.

Just ask the notary what is needed.  PA basically requires the same rules as the state from which you're buying.  The only time I got into a pickle was when I bought a boat from MD.  In MD, boats older than a certain year didn't need to be titled but PA does require a title for that age boat.  It just kinda fell into a loophole that PA didn't have an answer for.  In the end, a nice lady at MD department of boaty things just whipped up a title for me after I whined for a bit.

Oh... forgot.  You often have the option of paying tax in the other state, or in PA.  I just pay the PA tax because it's one of the cheapest and it's one less step.  There are some states that don't charge sales tax on cars, like DE, but in order to avoid the tax you would have to register it there as your own, then bring it to PA and title it here.  It really doesn't save you much money.

Basically, since PA does charge tax, they need to see that sales tax was paid somewhere, so since DE can't take tax you end up paying it anyway.

The reason I don't like trying to save a few bucks paying tax in the other state is because it's redtape galore.  You can't just bring a receipt that says you paid tax, PA has to contact the state and verify that tax was paid on it.  That bit me in the butt when I bought a truck in TX to take to CA.  Not wanting to pay CA's big tax, I paid it in TX.  What a mess.  I had to pay CA's tax, then once the redtape happened I could submit for a refund.  The shady dealer in TX just pocketed the money and never paid it.

Just do it one-stop.  I suggest reporting the actual purchase price and have a bill of sale signed by the seller (which can just be a handwritten thing, or whip something up in Word or Excel).  One check or one swipe of a card and it's all handled.

Also, DMV.org is a non profit website that summarizes every state's DMV/DOT rules.  It's a great way to get general info about how other states (and PA) do things.

You're welcome to come buy mine out of state and experience it first hand :)

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https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/cars-sale/1996-mazda-miata-with-186k/186330/page1/
 

I'll just comment on the payment side of things..  I paid for my race car via paypal, and accepted venmo for the Rx-8 I just sold.  So stay flexible.

Also agreed that if you're willing to show up, you're better than 95% of the "buyers" who reach out to you.  Sellers are generally very flexible when someone is in front of them to buy your car, because as soon as you post a car for sale on facebook/craigslist, you're going to get immediately inundated with "great" offers of "$1200, cash!" on your $4k car.  I put in my ads that price is only negotiable in person, and if people try to open with "what's your lowest price" or "$1500 right now!" I just ask what it's like to go through life unable to read...

If you are in the far east of PA like I am, we have a wonderful automotive notary in Easton called "Lynn's Notary" on Freemansburg Av. Super helpful, pleasant every time. I have used her as a buyer and seller multiple times. Curtis covered the details precisely.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I'm in MD. I bought a car in PA last month.  The notary place issued me a temp tag that expires 10/02/21. It's still on the car as I haven't put it through MD inspection yet. 

In reply to Steve_Jones :

That's good to know, and somewhat aligns with how I understand it. PA basically can't issue a temp tag on a vehicle not titled in PA.  Evidently they can issue one to get you out of the state, but can't do it for coming in.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Gotcha, I read it as PA did not do temp tags at all, and hoped it changed. MD does not do temp tags, and the tags for the car stays with the owner, makes for a fun trip home as well. 

At least as of January 2021 when I bought the van, they didn't do temp tags for out of state vehicles.  They were out of plates when I did the paperwork, so they did a temp tag THEN, but not for me to go get it.

It really seems like it has to do with provenance.  If it's here and they can touch it, it's ok.  If it's not there and they can't look it up in a database, it's all a lie and you're trying to defraud something.  In soup guy's voice:  "No temp for you."

Electronic bank transfer may also be an option, depending on the seller, but generally cash is king.  Don't try negotiating price before you actually view the car.  You should also talk to your insurance agent beforehand to make sure what's required to get the car covered so you can drive it home.

I've bought and sold private party a number of ways, including in-person and remote.  I always talk to the person on the phone to get a sense for if they're someone I want to deal with, get a sense for if the car matches the description and make sure there won't be any surprises when you show up to see it.  You can also get a sense from the seller how firm they are on the price, and how quickly they really want/need to sell.

For bigger dollar purchases you can meet at your bank.  They usually have a notary on staff, if you need one.  You can have a cashier check printed there...or just hand over cash while inside the bank.  You shouldn't have to deal with a lien on an NA Miata, the paper title will state if there's a lien.  I've exchanged $4k in cash in-person. Anything more than that and I think a cashiers check or wire transfer makes sense.

How you legally transport the car once you buy it is also something you need to consider.  Always make sure it's covered under your insurance. No excuses.  You'll need proof of insurance before you register the car.  Some states make it easy to get a temporary tag.  Other states don't offer temp. tags.  Lots of people just throw an extra set of plates on the car and drive it home (fingers crossed they don't get pulled over).  In FL the owner isn't required to return tags to the DMV when you sell a car...so most people have an extra tag in the garage.  Most states require the owner to surrender the tag before you can cancel insurance, so this isn't an option.  You may need pay for the car, sign a bill of sale, get the title and keys, register the car and return back to the seller's property to legally drive your car home.

If you're a AAA member you just have the car towed home once  you officially own it.   There is a 3-4 day waiting period between when you sign up and when you can use your tow privilages. I have heard of people getting banned by AAA if they abuse the system....but if you own the car and it's "broken"every few years...

Thanks for all the additional information everyone! The process seemed daunting at first, but honestly it doesn't seem so bad. Now the hardest part seems to be transporting the vehicle back home. I am a AAA member, so I guess a tow isn't such a bad idea. With my luck, I would get pulled over 15 minutes into the drive home. From the sound of it, if the vehicle is bought in PA, I can at least get temp tags same day from a PA notary?

In reply to Japanspec :

You can get real tags same day if you buy in PA. They'll hand you a plate at the notary once the title is transferred. Just call and add it to your insurance and you're good to go.

Buying out of state and importing into PA - I did a temporary registration in South Carolina and drove it home. To register it in PA, I went to the AAA. They need to see the VIN number, which as I registered it a few weeks later, I needed to make a pencil rubbing of the VIN. The second time I imported a car from out of state, I trailered it and went to AAA with the car on the trailer. In both case, I got tags that day. The signed bill of sale is essential.

In case you need to export from PA, the AAA can also handle this but there's a fee if the buyer isn't an AAA member.