Fitech help sought.

NickD said:

Just curious, do you have it on a circuit that has good 12V power on Start position. I've seen people have issues where the circuit they were feeding the ECM power from had 12V+ on Accessory and Run, but either no power or iffy power on Start. So if they dribbled fuel down the throttle body, it would start and fire, but it would never start without an external fuel source (or it would start, bark once, stall and then crank without starting)

I actually did have that problem initially.  I didn't realize that my run power cut out in start.  So I rewired it so the switched lead now has 12v in both run and crank. 

In reply to jfryjfry (Forum Supporter) :

The handheld will give you run voltage I believe at least the logs do.

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Mezzanine :

If the O2 sensor sees unburt O2, it will have a lean signal.  Seen that by accident before.  Not fast enough to actually detect a misfire, but it won't combust enough to remove hte O2 to detect.   

The real lesson is to record, record, record- which will tell you where the system is having problems instead of guesing.

Yes! Thanks for catching my error. You're absolutely right, I got the wires crossed in my brain. I've edited my post so I don't add any further confusion. 

So jfryjfry.... did some "searching" on how do to stuff....  And mostly what I find on the tube of U's are people struggling like you are, and many of them bailing on this system to go to a more reliable carb replcement EFI system.  Not what I expected to find- especially when my search was about how to log data with Fitech.

Uh, oh.

Sounds like the second hand market for a FiTech might be a cheap place to pick one up if you're EFI savvy. But it certainly doesn't look promising. 

The inconsistent RPM signal certainly sounds like a problem to me though. Any ECU is going to strugle with determining how much fuel to inject if it doesn't know how fast the engine is turning. 

Mezzanine said:

Sounds like the second hand market for a FiTech might be a cheap place to pick one up if you're EFI savvy. But it certainly doesn't look promising. 

The inconsistent RPM signal certainly sounds like a problem to me though. Any ECU is going to strugle with determining how much fuel to inject if it doesn't know how fast the engine is turning. 

 

The problems that I'm seeing- unless you can use a totally different computer, the issues can not be dealt via skill.  The tube of U's videos show more hardware problems - both with the ECU and the handheld unit.  

The easy button replacement *computer* would be an MS- as the hardware set is so basic that all it would need is the simple MS1 set up.  But I'm not aware that it's even a possibility.

I am EFI savvy and I would never install one of these systems.

There is a reason the OEM's no longer use Throttle Body injection, hobbling an EFI by retaining all of the fuel distribution issues of a carb.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do EFI, TBI does not fall into the first category. You can't start off in the first step by compromising the install by using an injection method that has proven to be less than optimal AT BEST.

In my opinion these "bolt on systems" are likely do more to turn folks away from EFI, due to the poor performance and support these MFGR's provide. I have had personal experience with these closed systems from both Edelbrock and Holley. Both of these companies owe me for systems purchased that were unuseable in reasonable situations. Both were fixed by installing a MegaSquirt ECU.

The folks marketing these systems are preying on unsuspecting and unknowledgeable purchasers.

Alfa!

after trying several times to log, I finally figured out that you have to delete all the files AND the folder before it can write a usable file. 
 

so....   I'll post some pics here but I think emailing you the file would be the easiest. 
my email is my username at yahoo. 

so I keyed on, set it to log basic sensors, and cranked without throttle.  It caught and died.  Repeated.  With same result. 
then I tried with throttle and it caught and  ran but stuttered, stumbled and Choked for about 20 seconds before I let off the throttle and let it die. 
 

a few observations:   A strike against me: I have not achieved full throttle travel from the pedal yet.  To the floor is only about 50%.  I didn't think I was getting fully open but I thought I was closer than that.  I verified just now that it's probably correct and not a mis-adjusted tps 
 

it says run state is crank when it was actually running. 
 

it has a fuel pw column that changes but I'm not sure what this is.  I have attempted to make it not utilize fuel pump pulse width as I am running the pump off of a relay triggered by the fitech fuel pump wire. 
 

the fault codes it shows are:

55: (p0032) wideband Heater open 

105: not listed but seems to be o2 related

36: (p0335) crank noise fault 

To be clear: it was running fine when it just suddenly died at idle. And it has been crap ever since. 
 

no vacuum leaks or unplugged/burned wires or hoses that I see

Hopefully, I sent the email to the right location- I'll look at the data with my better computer (work)...

But the  crank noise fault could be a very key indicator.  If that ever changes in an odd way, everything will be messed up.  The O2 sensor is just for feedback, and while nice to have, isn't really required.  

alfa73(at)comcast(dot)net

Many thanks to mr Alfa for taking time to look over the data and offer some suggestions, which I will be doing.

in the meantime, it is running again and running great (for now!).  Had to reset the ecu and start over.  The theory is that some noise screwed up the program. 
 

funny how I immediately go to defcon 5 and start looking at sniper systems then, based on comments here about tbi, look at the $2200 proflo4, then saying screw it - just run the carb. 
 

I have no reason to think I won't have issues in the future but for now it's good. Maybe I'll end up with something else.  I definitely don't want my wife getting stranded. 
(I see you there, mr analog and dependable carburetor. )

jfryjfry (Forum Supporter) said:

Many thanks to mr Alfa for taking time to look over the data and offer some suggestions, which I will be doing.

in the meantime, it is running again and running great (for now!).  Had to reset the ecu and start over.  The theory is that some noise screwed up the program. 
 

funny how I immediately go to defcon 5 and start looking at sniper systems then, based on comments here about tbi, look at the $2200 proflo4, then saying screw it - just run the carb. 
 

I have no reason to think I won't have issues in the future but for now it's good. Maybe I'll end up with something else.  I definitely don't want my wife getting stranded. 
(I see you there, mr analog and dependable carburetor. )

And now you are in the same situation I am. It is working but I don't know why or for how long. Would I ever trust this to keep my wife safe? No, not based on my experience.

And of not help but worth knowing, the power plug is kind of weird. Rather than having a tip that is separated from the positive voltage, there is a tiny metal plug inside the handheld. It is easy to push the pin over when inserting the power connector. Ask me how I know, I needed a microscope to even see that there was a pin in the hole where the connector plugs in; it is that small.