Dootz said:In reply to alfadriver :
No real aftermarket compared to the 3.8/4.2 Essex
Are you sure? The 2600/2800 were real popular engines for modification in the 70s and 80s.
Might be a "you can't get there from here" with the 4 liter... but there is always the 2.9.
I am unaware of amy aftermarket whatsoever for the 3.8. Even when Ford was racing that engine in the Busch series, after a couple seasons the engine evolved to something completely unrelated to production engines.
Honda J 3.5 V6 is a vastly better engine & there's even a kit for them already. The Odyssey autotrans dies & the car gets parted out..
Coming from the crew that thought it was a great idea to drop a Mercedes diesel in a Miata, I must say I'm surprised to see everyone dumping on this.
BoostedBrandon said:Coming from the crew that thought it was a great idea to drop a Mercedes diesel in a Miata, I must say I'm surprised to see everyone dumping on this.
This is a forum that would rather see an epic fail than mere mediocrity.
BoostedBrandon said:Coming from the crew that thought it was a great idea to drop a Mercedes diesel in a Miata
The automotive equivalent of shouting "Do a backflip!" to someone standing on the edge of a building.
The Cologne 2600 was well supported for performance parts? What? I've seen no proof of this and I owned one in the late-90's. 2800 is basically the same, just with better heads.
I think if I still had my Capri, I would be tempted to play with the 2600 again, but I can't see swapping one of these into something like a Miata. I do think they're nicely smaller and probably easier to get into the car without that ugly forward position that the picture on the first page of this thread shows.
If you're already doing a swap I think I'd pick something with more positive benefits. A hot cam, some head work, and a good exhaust on a 2800 Cologne gets you, what, 130 to 140 hp at the crank?
alfadriver said:Huh? Not that I know of.
The Duratec in the Ranger is the I4, as the V6 remained the Vulcan 3.0 and the Cologne 4.0 (which were auto only).
Ah, you're right. I remembered the 3.0 V6 in the Ranger, but forgot it was the Vulcan.
And I'm not aware of any Duratec in a Mustang of any style. The V6 was either the 3.8 here, the 4.0l Cologne, or the 3.7- which isn't the duratec family. And the current I4 are sort of lineage to the duratec.
The 3.7 V6 isn't part of the Duratec family (ie, the DOHC V6s that started as 2.5s in the Contour and then 3.0s in Taurus and Escape in the early 2000s)? What about the 3.5 from the Edge and Taurus X?
Now there IS a RWD 3.0l vehicle out there, but it's a Lincoln LS, and it was available as a manual. And that HAS been put into a Miata before- roughly the same time the 4V V10 went into a Mustang in the other thread. But the 3.5/3/7 isn't related to the 3.0l.
Yes, I remember that Miata (and the Mustang), it was what got me thinking of Duratec swaps in the first place. As for the manual V6 LS, good luck finding one of those.....
In reply to Tom_Spangler :
A lot put the 3.5/3.7 into the duratec family, but they are not even close to the same engine. We tried to use the 3.0l to emulate the first 3.5l, but it wasn't even close- the 3.5 is very, very different, and WAY better of an engine than the duratec family. Powerful, clean, and smooth. One of the best engines Ford has made during my career.
But, yes, as seen in the Taurus X, Edge, Flex, Explorer, and 500. And the base engine in the Taurus restart in 2009.
I have a 4.3 stroker Supercoupe and a 4.2 F150. MLS head gaskets have made blown gaskets a non-issue on 3.8s and 4.2s so long as they're installed correctly.
OP, you mentioned a split port 3.8 and then used the words "factory supercharger." You're going to have to pick one or the other. There's no way to mate the split port heads with the SC intake manifold. Just won't happen short of fabbing a one-off intake.
If you want a manual transmission that's going to live behind a boosted 3.8, we're talking an M5R2 or a T56. The former isn't very good, and the second will more than eat up any money you save on the cost of the engine, especially since SBF-bolt pattern T56s are extremely rare, so you'll need a steel SFI bell housing.
I love my SC, but count me in the "why?" crowd for this swap as well. There are just better choices.
Had a friend that had a 4.2 in a truck, he said the parts were out there just not alot of options and prices were high because of that.
If you want a similar engine wouldn't the 4.3 Chevy be the easier and cheaper swap, with a way better upgrade path. They aren't commonly modified but much more so than the 4.2/3.8 I'd assume.
If you don't feel like fabricating I'd imagine the j series would be the easy but and probably have a much more sporting nature
In reply to alfadriver :
That's not true - the AJ V6 and 3.7 Cyclone are derivatives of the Duratec family
In reply to Will :
Wasn't me that said it, was Stampie
In reply to Opti :
I looked into 4.3 swaps. Distributor kills it. Either you recess the firewall, making hvac non-reinstallable, or you move it so far forward its pointless. Same issue as standard sbc.
Now, if theres a readily available dis 4.3, thats a different story. Same with the lt1.
The 4.0 was mentioned .had a ranger splash with headers, a tune, a 5 speed and 4 10s with that engine. Damn thing honked for a truck .
Dootz said:In reply to alfadriver :
That's not true - the AJ V6 and 3.7 Cyclone are derivatives of the Duratec family
The guy literally works for ford developing stuff.
In reply to Patrick :
Shh. It's more fun to watch.
alfadriver said:In reply to Tom_Spangler :
[...]the 3.5 is [...]One of the best engines Ford has made during my career.
That is kinda three words too long.
The 3.5/3.7 is an incredibly good engine - quiet, smooth, and reliable. The water pump thing is pretty overblown IMO, although I do like how the separator plate can cause an oil leak from the water pump weep passage. (Have only seen that once)
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
They were using the 4.3 til just recently or maybe they are still using it, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure the newer stuff with 4.3s doesn't use a distributor. If the newer ones are more expensive, can you convert an older one?
Disclaimer: I was way too lazy to look up when the 4.3 was last used.
Also I don't know how mentioned an LT1, but that's my people and obviously the best idea mentioned all thread
I just gave away a good running 3.8 I took out of my former parts car to a guy who's swapping it into an 84 rx7 because it was available for the right price so your not the only person thinking this. He's going to swap over to a 2 barrel though and ditch the stock tbi
In reply to dropstep :
The 12A running on one rotor was too fast for him?
Knurled. said:alfadriver said:In reply to Tom_Spangler :
[...]the 3.5 is [...]One of the best engines Ford has made during my career.
That is kinda three words too long.
The 3.5/3.7 is an incredibly good engine - quiet, smooth, and reliable. The water pump thing is pretty overblown IMO, although I do like how the separator plate can cause an oil leak from the water pump weep passage. (Have only seen that once)
Fair enough- all the work I did was about the development and not durability. And more specific, the 3.5l IVCT PFI engine was one of the easiest engines to make PZEV I've ever worked on, and that was 15 years ago. If it weren't for the fact that we didn't need a PZEV solution in tha volume, we'd have well over a million more PZEV's out there...
Dootz said:In reply to alfadriver :
That's not true - the AJ V6 and 3.7 Cyclone are derivatives of the Duratec family
While we did use the Duratec 3.0l as a surrogate to pretend to develop the 3.5l engine, they are not related what so ever.
Heck, now that i think about it- the two engines are separated by a decade- the first engine I ever worked on in 1992 was the 3.0l Duratec, and then a decade later we were doing emissions development on the Cyclone. Funny how that was. And just as the 3.5 was about to be released into production, we started developing the DI on the same engine.
In reply to alfadriver :
My wife has the '15 Edge w/ the v6 and my god that thing is peppy for it's size. She previously had a '13 Escape w/ the 2.0T; much prefers the Edge.
All my search engines aren't sufficiently specific to finding donors for the 3.5/3.7. What North/South manual transmission models used that engine? I'm assuming the only sources are pickup trucks?
EDIT: Okay, it looks like the Mustang is a potential donor...
In reply to alfadriver :
the 3.7 in the current MKZ is shockingly powerful and smooth. coworker has one. he also has a lead foot. we always nominate him to drive to lunch.
EDIT: also, yeah, argue Ford engines with alfa. that's funny.
In reply to stroker :
It's also the only engine in the big Transits. Turbo and nonturbo form.
Opposite of the old Econolines: Engine sits up against the radiator, practically 100% in front of the front axle.
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