Ford’s Focus RS “Fix?”

I’ve seen an RS zipping around town recently, and it got me wondering if the prices had dropped.

Sure enough, there’s a pile of “new” 2017’s on the lot for $35-40k, and some used ones with less than 10k miles dipping below $35k...which got me itching to drive one.

However; while the head gasket issue was once thought to be limited to a few early production cars that received Mustang hg’s, some folks are speculating that the open-deck design is the root of the gasket failure.

While Ford is offering to inspect/replace head gaskets (and the head itself if it fails a pressure test,) they’re only offering to do it until January 2019, from what I understand.

So what does the hive-mind think? Is the issue overblown? Is this a real FIX on Ford’s part, or just a band-aid to get the cars through the next few months, and tell owners to pound sand after 1/19?

Have you driven one? I'm not any more up on the repairs than you are, but the seating position turned me off. It's about 4" too high. Otherwise it's pretty fun. Probably worth to jump behind the wheel before thinking more about possible issues.

The more important question is do you fit in the car with the RS seats. It's a seriously tight fit.

I have one - it's my primary car.

The headgasket thing is being taken care of for free. Not a recall, but more of a technical service bulletin or customer service campaign. Dealers have been instructed to fix any of their unsold stock before sale, so if a new car falls in the date range, it should be fixed before you buy.

Seats could potentially be an issue. I'm 5'8" 175 lbs with a generally athletic build and it took about 1000 miles to break the seats in. The bolsters squeeze my shoulder blades on long trips, but for holding me in place during autocross, they are awesome.

I don't experience any of the "too high" seating position issues either. Probably because I'm short, but I do like to sit very low. Again, non issue for me.

There are several hundred new cars listed on autotrader right now. For fun, I plotted the used listings in $ vs. mileage and my 2016 with 12k miles on it would list around $33-34k. I don't think it would sell for that though. I get routine "we want your trade" letters from my dealership for $27k which is too low. It will be interesting to see what the market decides with these cars once they are no longer available new.

I wanted to test drive one right down the road yesterday, but it’s been raining like crazy the last few days. I hope to check it out on Monday.

In reply to collinskl1 :

Hmm... I kept looking for the adjustment to lower the seat. I thought it was super high, like awkwardly so. I'm 6'2 but I had plenty of headroom, it was the actual floor-to-butt distance I didn't like. I drove the BRZ right after.... and that's what I ended up getting.

Still wish I could put the seat EVEN lower :)

In reply to Blaise :

I have the RS2 alcantara power seats, and they aren't height adjustable but the front will pivot up or down.

If it was height adjustable, I'd probably move it lower because that's my preference - it just isn't a problem for me ergonomically.

In reply to collinskl1 :

Again, I just wonder if the “fix” is really a fix, or just a band-aid.

If lateral movement from the cylinders is causing premature gasket failure, I don’t see how replacing the gasket, or even the head is going to prevent future failure.

I hope I don’t sound snarky. I’m just leery of plunking down $35k on a car I’d be apprehensive to wail on/do any modifications.

In reply to poopshovel again :

I can understand the apprehension. Here's the write up from Stratified for who did some root cause analysis on the issue as well as inspected the fix. They're the ones who tuned my MS3 so I trust their technical advice. Whether or not that helps or hurts your decision I don't know.

It should be said though: steel blocks and aluminum heads will have headgasket failures.  Eventually.  Just a fact of life when you have dissimilar metals and they mention it in the Stratified write up.  Its a wear item, so don't think you'll never have to change it again for the life of the car.  That isn't to say that this failure should be brushed off or ignored, but I'm glad they are stepping up.

From what I understand, Ford went through 4 or 5 head gasket designs before production of the FoRS and for some in the aftermarket that were making over 500hp, the ultimate fix was to put the guts of the 2.3L in the older 2.0 closed deck block.

Its not like this is the first car in recent memory to have problems, look at BMW and their cooling system failures or VW and their oil sludging and/or cooling issues (I won't even touch the Diesel stuff, that's another matter altogether).  So as long as the manufacturer steps up reasonably and takes care of the issues under warranty, I'm ok with that. 

The trick is finding a dealership that is willing to keep you in the loop and not blow smoke up your butts.  My local dealer seems to be on the back foot and struggling to keep up with the information trickling out of Ford (which is par for the course as I knew more about status of my car order than they did).

Didn't drive one, only got to sit in one at the dealer. I didn't see any way I could fit inside with a helmet and the seating position is very "on a perch" feeling for me. 

But my E82 is as well and it doesn't bother me. But I think that's because it doesn't feel nearly as claustrophobic inside.

collinskl1 said:

In reply to Blaise :

I have the RS2 alcantara power seats, and they aren't height adjustable but the front will pivot up or down.

If it was height adjustable, I'd probably move it lower because that's my preference - it just isn't a problem for me ergonomically.

After driving a stock '18 Focus rental I can say that those seats sit way, way too damned high.  Coming back to my RS2 seats was so much nicer since I didn't have my head in the visor anymore.  I'm only 5'8" and about 215 (yeah I'm a schlubby IT worker, shut up).

I find I have to "snuggle" down a bit more once I get on the move, much like checking your belts after a couple of laps at speed on track.  Just part of the charm of the seats.

I know the Euro versions of the seats were different in some way and there were some group buy's going to bring some of those seats over, but the fact is you could pretty much order any Euro-Ford parts (including the adjustable cup holder/cubby and auto door protectors)

You could always modify the seat mounts, but I get not wanting to do that on a new car.

Any longevity concerns with the magic rear dif? That might concern me more from a long-term ownership standpoint. Maybe there's nothing to be concerned about, but it seems like there's an awful lot of moving parts and clutches and sensors that can go wrong there, and it's a one-off part right now as far as I know. At least with the engine you'll have multiple options for repair (closed deck 2.0 block, sleeving the factory block, finding another easily available 2.3 bottom end, etc).

Given the aftermarket support, I suspect someone like Quaiffe might provide a solution if Ford doesn't use the design in something a bit more common and allow more service parts to be available.

I suspect it, or a variation of it, will find its way into some of the smaller crossovers down the line.

Adding a cooler may help its longevity and it is on the list for mine once the warranty expires (that and an engine oil cooler among other things).

Odd.  My Fiesta has driver seat height adjustment along with steering wheel tilt and telescope.

 Seems the more expensive car should have those.

Oh wait.  the RS has a 6 way power drivers seat,  up and down is some of them.

The rear diff isn't all that spectacular other than its "it is always slipping" function due to the staggered final drive ratios.

Think of it like a standard Haldex style diff controlled by a clutch pack, but instead of the clutch pack being on the input, there are clutch packs on each output.  (There was a Kei class Subaru called the Rex that had a similar drivetrain layout, except it had a viscous coupling on each rear output instead of electronic controls.)  The computer controls each rear wheel's torque output independently.

iceracer said:

Odd.  My Fiesta has driver seat height adjustment along with steering wheel tilt and telescope.

 Seems the more expensive car should have those.

The RS does have steering wheel height adjustment and you can raise or lower the front of the seat, adjust lumbar, seat back, fore/aft.

Under 35k? Mate, take another look. There's clean used one's with less than 10K miles for UNDER 30k. 

Turns out the market for overdamped heavy hatchbacks that crack blocks when tuned and can't complete a 20 minute HPDE without the RDU going into limp mode isn't very lucrative. 

In reply to goingnowherefast :

Mine survived three 20 minutes Track sessions without any issues while chasing an S2000 and a E36 M3, but I’m sure your experience is different.

sure the dampening is a bit harsh, but that just means it’s a set of springs away from being right.

as for cracking the block on a tune, I doubt many tuners have as much R&D depth or experience as Ford or Ford Racing do.  Of course 350hp on street gas from a 2.3L with a warranty apparently isn’t enough for some and when they blow E36 M3 up they get all butthurt about it.

goingnowherefast said:

Under 35k? Mate, take another look. There's clean used one's with less than 10K miles for UNDER 30k. 

 

Turns out the market for overdamped heavy hatchbacks that crack blocks when tuned and can't complete a 20 minute HPDE without the RDU going into limp mode isn't very lucrative. 

Links please?

z31maniac said:

goingnowherefast said:

Under 35k? Mate, take another look. There's clean used one's with less than 10K miles for UNDER 30k. 

 

Turns out the market for overdamped heavy hatchbacks that crack blocks when tuned and can't complete a 20 minute HPDE without the RDU going into limp mode isn't very lucrative. 

Links please?

Links to low resale: 

1. https://tinyurl.com/ycr9yhsp       17 RS - 2,990 miles - $29.5K 
2. https://tinyurl.com/y9s9bm26     16 RS - 8,856 miles - $29.9K
3. https://tinyurl.com/yd452wp6      16 RS - 29K miles - $28.5K 

Link to RDU issues outlined by tuning company: Vorshlag. These guys make fast cars, and they know it. Other info links included (please read the first one)

1. http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=58372
2. https://www.mishimoto.com/engineering/2017/04/focus-rs-rear-diff-cooler-part-2/
3. http://www.focusrs.org/forum/16-focus-rs-performance/53753-senseless-pursuit-rdu-cooling.html

Great video outlining the block cracking issue: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuGodKdRLpE&t=397s

There's a reason tuning company's rebuild the RS motor using the 2.0T block with the 2.3L components. It has a fatal flaw. ^ See above video

Geez. These things are seeing some HORRIBLE depreciation. 25-30% in one year with nearly no miles?

z31maniac said:

Geez. These things are seeing some HORRIBLE depreciation. 25-30% in one year with nearly no miles?

That seems like normal depreciation.  Most cars get hammered in the first year, regardless of how many miles they have.

It's a little more of an aggressive drop than normal deprecation in this segment, but nothing earth shattering. I just hope none of the owners figured it wouldn't deprecate as much because it's an "RS". 

I wanted one of these adn couldn't find one so I bought an Audi S3 and couldn't be happier. I got a '17 for $40k out the door used.