Forgive me for I have sinned....

And asked a budget miata question over on miata.net.

And pretty much got roasted. Im pretty sure im done posting over there after this one....

So, heres a copy and paste of my post over there. Hopefully here ill get answers to the actual question, instead of roasted for not joining the cult of xida/fox/vmaxx.

My 2000 base model has 90k on the clock. Nothing has ever been changed near as i can tell. I know there are no rear bumpstops left, and fronts are questionable. Struts in the rear are shot, fronts are again questionable. 

I use the car as a pure appliance to rack up miles while not sucking what soul i have left. About 500 a week in all weather, over some of the worst roads north Carolina has to offer. Seriously, some of these remind me of logging roads in rural Pennsylvania. Only paved.

Goals:  1. Cheap 2. Best ride quality possible. 3. Durable. 4. Lower 1.5 inches max. Really would like to reduce the wheel gap to my 15x7 rfp1 knockoffs. Not a priority, but if i need to buy springs...

My thoughts were sensen struts, tien s-tech springs, and stock bumbpstops.

I know that i have no idea what works well for this application. All the posts i can find take handling or stance as the primary concern. 

So, what would y'all reccomend, and why? Max budget of 500 bucks.

What does Mazdaspeed offer? I used their springs and KYB GR2's on my P5 and loved them.

Ps: You should post the roasts!

Post the roasts.

Nah..... Think along lines of: wasting money, ruin car, go to craigslist, blown out junk better than blank....

And the tien s tech springs rates seem to match pretty closely with the mazdaspeed miata rates. Part of the reason i was thinking about them. I seem to recall someone saying that the base model spring rates make the bumpstops an actual part of the suspension by hitting them all the time, so slightly stiffer springs help. But i dont exactly trust my memory here.

Diy Bilstein coilovers?

Have you checked out the budget Bilstein coilover threads on miataturbo.net or clubroadster? I think Swank Force One wrote the clubroadster guide.

edit: I was beat to the​ punch lol.

My 01 had the hard s suspension and 16 inch tires. It rode like ass.

So i had written bilstiens off on a miata.

Should I revisit? Maybe some good used, and some certain springs? Ive got threaded ebay coilover sleeves.....

Relevant CL post:

Used FM Vmaxx

this is slightly above your budget but Flyin Miata has this https://www.flyinmiata.com/nb-stage-1-suspension-kit.html

Replacing the bumpstops with FCM units can make a huge difference to ride/handling, don't leave those out of the equation.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

I'm not sure but I remember reading in one of the DIY coilover threads that the factory Bilsteins were way more damper than the stock springs needed. That could explain the bad ride. This might be hearsay and I don't have experience with that set up so take it with a grain of salt.

I have no immediate knowledge of Mee-otters, but I know the Tien springs that I acquired for my SRT4 sucked unless you didn't move. Drive over, say, a dime, and it bottomed out. Approach a speed bump, and you were better off to get out of the car, leave it in first gear, and get back in after the car had crossed over. Many "small drop" springs put the car on the bumpstops, and for a daily driver, that is not an option. I would cut stock springs for your app.

I may get the kind of reaction to this that you did at Miata.net, but for a daily driver, Monroe builds a pretty good shock...

DIY Bilsteins will set you back quite a bit more than $500. Cheap coilovers are going to ride like ass. For your budget I'd try to source a used FM setup. Or find a way to grow the budget and get Koni shocks / good bumpstops + stock springs. Or a new FM Vmaxx set

pointofdeparture wrote: Replacing the bumpstops with FCM units can make a huge difference to ride/handling, don't leave those out of the equation.

Can you give me some sort of education on bumpstops here? Not something I can say i know anything about, and attempting to research it has been like trying to find the ark of the covenant.

In reply to Streetwiseguy:

Kinda where i was headed with sensen. Couldn't tell a bit of difference between them and the Monroe shocks on my Subaru.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

The Cliff's notes would be that Miatas were designed to work the bumpstops far harder than most vehicles, and some time ago a few companies figured out that by playing with the size and material of them you can achieve different effects.

The impression I have is that the factory bumpstops are considered to be too hard; you can get more suspension travel, a better ride and more predictable handling by using aftermarket ones from Flyin Miata or Fat Cat.

Dusterbd13 wrote:

pointofdeparture wrote: Replacing the bumpstops with FCM units can make a huge difference to ride/handling, don't leave those out of the equation.

Can you give me some sort of education on bumpstops here? Not something I can say i know anything about, and attempting to research it has been like trying to find the ark of the covenant.

Not Miata specific but I installed ZQ8 bumpstops from the S10 Extreme models on my 96 Impala SS. At normal ride height they were less than 1/4" from making contact on the front control arms and I believe they were barely making contact in the rear location. It made a drastic improvement in ride quality.

The set up around that budget is tein or fm springs with bilstiens, nod to the teins (per Emilio of 949).

Tirerack has billies at $100 corner, and springs are universally $2-250, so you're a little over your budget, but should be a good set up.

I use the fcm bump stops, good stuff (I think I did Goodwin, not quite $100 iirc...).

Wait for used springs to pop up, and you'll get closer to your budget.

Of course, that said, you're at FM basic Vmaxx. Even if you tried KYB basic dampers, you're not that much further ahead, and I don't know how long they'd last on lowering springs.

And that's the reason I haven't looked at miata net in years. What a bunch of blowhards.

Appleseed wrote: And that's the reason I haven't looked at miata net in years. What a bunch of blowhards.

Maybe you should have searched.

My third post on Miata.net resulted in me getting flamed. My sin was having a good customer experiencing with Fat-Cat Motorsports. Looking at his posts, it was clear that in his mind Keith Tanner didn't know what he was talking about either.

I'll jump on the better bumpstops bandwagon. I ran the FCM ones on my 91 with FM springs and KYB AGXs and the ride was pretty good. Adding those bumpstops made a huge difference in ride quality. The reason is that the longer, more progressive ones slow your suspension down more gradually than the short stock ones. This is where our old friend F=MA comes out to play: mass is unchanged but acceleration is reduced, so force is reduced as well.

So, y'all have sold me on the fat cat bumpstops. I see they have a bunch of different ones. What ones do i want? Do we know if Keith has something similar? Hes given enough free advice on here that id like to support him where i can.

Would bumpstops, stock springs, and sensen/ast/kyb get me rge top 3 goals? Because if we toss lowering out, that opens the door for better struts.

The 500 is a pretry firm number, unfortunately.

Also, someone mentioned trimming coils. Not a bad idea, but would only happen in the rear to level out the ride heights. Unless there a reason to leave the rear higher than the front.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

On my 96 I went through several suspensions: the stock springs & whatever shocks were on it, stock springs with KYB AGX, Racing Beat springs; and finally Ground Control coilovers with 450/320-ish springs IIRC, Koni sports, and Fat Cat bump stops. The car was WAY more comfortable on the street with the last setup than it had been with any of the others.

FWIW I'm not a Bilstein fan. Every set I've encountered, across a wide variety of cars, has always felt like it had way too much compression dampening and barely adequate rebound. That said I'll probably put a set on the Vette since there aren't any other quality street shocks available - Koni doesn't offer anything, so it's either race shocks, Monroe/KYB, or Bilstein. I'm curious to see if I feel the same about them on this car.

I can get koni str.t struts for right at 300 shipped. Add in 100 for bumpstops, and im broke. But, if it's the solution, ill spend the money. No funds for different springs at that point though.