Formula 1 2011

Maroon92 wrote: I still think Lewis and Sebastian are cut from the same cloth. They are both immature, and they are both second tier drivers AT BEST!

I don't know how you figure that. I remember Vettels first race (the US Grand Prix in a BMW) and he came in 5th. Then he was pretty quick in the toro rossi cars which were no where as go as some of the other cars. And Hamilton is quick. He beat Alonso in the same car a few years ago. I think partly because Alonso was too busy being a little Bob Costas to attachly drive.

93EXCivic wrote:

Maroon92 wrote: I still think Lewis and Sebastian are cut from the same cloth. They are both immature, and they are both second tier drivers AT BEST!

I don't know how you figure that. I remember Vettels first race (the US Grand Prix in a BMW) and he came in 5th. Then he was pretty quick in the toro rossi cars which were no where as go as some of the other cars. And Hamilton is quick. He beat Alonso in the same car a few years ago. I think partly because Alonso was too busy being a little Bob Costas to attachly drive.

He did not come in 5th. he scored ONE championship point, which at the time was 8th. I was there, I witnessed it.

I am not saying Vettel is not quick, he certainly is, however he is not a legendary driver. He is Schumacher-esque, but he is not Senna-esque. If that makes any sense.

Also, Alonso had plenty to bitch about IMHO when he was at McLaren. The team leader (Dennis) was trying to sabotage his championship by providing the rookie with better equipment. Do you really think Hamilton would have been able to develop an F1 chassis to championship levels in his rookie season? That was Alonso's doing. El Matador brought his legendary 6 tenths to the McLaren team.

Hey... comparing anyone now to those long dead.... come on GET REAL.

Senna was, in his time the best, but being brutal, if he was really that good, he'd still be alive!

Schumacher - was really Schumacher/Brawn a team effort, with unlimited budget.

Alonso... albeit he is a good driver, but one who drives a bit to wildly... like Hamilton. If either doesn't have the best equipment, they whine like little girls, and blame everyone BUT themselves

Vettel... he is polite, and he blames himself when he screws up - how is that immature? And Vettel's 1st victory was in a lesser car while in the rain - sign of immaturity, I don't think so

Getting back to the basics... in this day, and this season Vettel has the field covered.... including Webber.

Btw... driving other cars besides F1... hmmm Jim Clark comes to mind... drove an indy car, drove a Cortina and won in all of them... so senna takes a back seat to Clark?

Stop being an a dolt - stop using Bushian logic...

Nobody has conclusively decided what caused Senna's fatal accident. There is no use laying it on the shoulders of a dead man, so stop being a dolt.

As for Alonso's alleged whining about being in a slow car...he went from a 2007 MCLAREN to a 2008 RENAULT!!! He never once complained at Renault. He does not complain when he is given a slow car, he complains when he is not given equal equipment.

Vettel doesn't have the field covered, Adrian Newey has the field covered. Engineering has won Vettel more races than skill. I never claimed that Vettel's immaturity was detrimental, and he has matured drastically over the last year. However, you won't see the immaturity come out of him until he is in a poor situation. Nobody complains about winning 5 races of 7.

oldeskewltoy wrote: Hey... comparing anyone now to those long dead.... come on GET REAL. Senna was, in his time the best, but being brutal, if he was really that good, he'd still be alive! Schumacher - was really Schumacher/Brawn a team effort, with unlimited budget. Alonso... albeit he is a good driver, but one who drives a bit to wildly... like Hamilton. If either doesn't have the best equipment, they whine like little girls, and blame everyone BUT themselves Vettel... he is polite, and he blames himself when he screws up - how is that immature? And Vettel's 1st victory was in a lesser car while in the rain - sign of immaturity, I don't think so Getting back to the basics... in this day, and this season Vettel has the field covered.... including Webber. Btw... driving other cars besides F1... hmmm Jim Clark comes to mind... drove an indy car, drove a Cortina and won in all of them... so senna takes a back seat to Clark? Stop being an a dolt - stop using Bushian logic...

I agree with everything you listed..............except for that last bit.

WTF was that?

Give anyone on the grid a Red Bull (a proper Red Bull, a Newey Red Bull, not that hunk of junk they keep handing to Webber), they WILL win with it. Give it to someone legendary, and they will walk away from the pack in a matter of laps.

bushian logic - makes wild assumptions with only facts he cares to use....

^Guys like Kobash that are dragging that Sauber up through the ranks, he would destroy people in the Red Bull, same for many others on the grid.

I guess we will find out shortly once the Hot-blown diffuser is banned. Which is a crock. It was approved legal at the beginning of the season, but now since Ferrari can't match the development pace they whine and whine.

z31maniac wrote: ^Guys like Kobash that are dragging that Sauber up through the ranks, he would destroy people in the Red Bull, same for many others on the grid. I guess we will find out shortly once the Hot-blown diffuser is banned. Which is a crock. It was approved legal at the beginning of the season, but now since Ferrari can't match the development pace they whine and whine.

It wasn't ever approved legal. It was a rule loophole that Renault and Red Bull exploited best, but the FIA made the decision 6 weeks ago that it was illegal. They have given teams 3 races to do away with them.

BTW, Ferrari's blown diffuser system works quite well, just not as well as Red Bull's.

Woohoo, go Mark, finally got his first 2011 pole.

Welcome to the big time Daniel Ricciardo, two Aussie's on the grid, covering 1st and last.

Remember what I said about Seb at the start of the season, lets see how how he adapts to a significant change.

As for the change, why was it done mid season, no practice to save money, yet millions of development $ flushed down the drain in the flick of a pen

oldeskewltoy wrote: Btw... driving other cars besides F1... hmmm Jim Clark comes to mind... drove an indy car, drove a Cortina and won in all of them... so senna takes a back seat to Clark?

Really, ever hear of a guy called Jack Brahbam, 3 time world champ, only man to build, race and win the world championship in a car bearing his own name, He sort of shook people up at Indy in a rear engined Cooper, won in Cortinas and other sedans downunder as well as smaller sedan and open wheel classes in both England and Australia.

Senna takes a back seat to no driver, ever.

Well done to Mack Webba! Looks like the Ferraris have stepped over the maccas in development. I hope they have come to terms with the Hards.

Pit mistakes from Red Bull, not what we are used to at all.

Alonso drove a faultless race, Vettel was gifted second as usual Webber was penalized by the team. There was no way Webber should have been told to maintain the gap, Vettel has a significant lead in the Championship and Webber needs the points.

I was on the edge of my seat watching the Massa/Hamiliton battle to the end...

aussiesmg wrote: Pit mistakes from Red Bull, not what we are used to at all. Alonso drove a faultless race, Vettel was gifted second as usual Webber was penalized by the team. There was no way Webber should have been told to maintain the gap, Vettel has a significant lead in the Championship and Webber needs the points.

+1

I thought he might go for it anyway. I remember how pissed he was when they took his nose and put it on Vettel's car and how hard he drove to win this race last year in spite of it. I really thought he was going to just ignore the radio and make a run at him.

As far as the "is Vettel a great driver" stuff... he is brilliant in the wet and qualifying. If he is alone on the track he is untouchable. He hasn't been so great when it it is time to fight for a pass or to defend from one. I think that is where the maturity comments come from - he lacks the finesse when locking wheels. In all honesty, he may have it - the commentary came from a few bad decisions two seasons ago where he made a couple impatient/reckless/poorly executed moves but he has been so dominant lately no one has had the stick to run along side him for more than a corner. Except when Button came on late in Spain.... and Vettel made a mistake that cost him the win. Doh.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: As far as the "is Vettel a great driver" stuff... he is brilliant in the wet and qualifying. If he is alone on the track he is untouchable. He hasn't been so great when it it is time to fight for a pass or to defend from one. I think that is where the maturity comments come from - he lacks the finesse when locking wheels. In all honesty, he may have it - the commentary came from a few bad decisions two seasons ago where he made a couple impatient/reckless/poorly executed moves but he has been so dominant lately no one has had the stick to run along side him for more than a corner. Except when Button came on late in Spain.... and Vettel made a mistake that cost him the win. Doh.

That was Canada...but the sentiment remains the same.

I was screaming when the rear jack failed on the Vettel pit. I know Fernando had the better car, but i wasn't sure he could make the pass stick on Vettel were it not for the botched pit job. Once he got by, I was 100% certain that the win was in his hands. I am glad that the prancing horse got a win, and I am ecstatic that Red Bull showed its flaws...Finally!

the Hot-blown diffuser will be back for the next race...

wbjones wrote: the Hot-blown diffuser will be back for the next race...

What makes you so sure?

the announcement has been running across the bottom of Speed Channel since late Sunday afternoon.....

I forgot to mention that all the teams have to agree to reinstate the start of the season regulation.... but since the new reg didn't seem to hurt Red Bull Renault ( qualified 1 & 2 ) ....

this is the link that explains it ... sorta...

http://www.itv.com/formula1/news/2011/7/fia-ready-to-scrap-exhaust-clampdown-from-german-gp-9631/

Vettel and Schumachers stats to age 24 were compared on the BBC coverage we get in Canada. Vettel is miles ahead on age, roughly tied based on races run.

Mr Newey doesn't build and prep his cars in a vacuum. Without intelligent input from the drivers, you wind up sucking.

I don't think Vettel is the second coming, but you gotta be nuts to think he's not the real deal. I would wager, though, this same conversation will happen next year when he's a two time champion, well on his way to a third.

Streetwiseguy wrote: I don't think Vettel is the second coming, but you gotta be nuts to think he's not the real deal. I would wager, though, this same conversation will happen next year when he's a two time champion, well on his way to a third.

Where's that +eleventy billion smiley when you want one?

I like how in an interview one of the guys from team Redbull said (ya know we are so success full because we just let our two drivers race none of this hey you hold back for him or let him pass) guess that's a crock huh? It's seems like Vettel's car is too fast in comparison to some other guys, not saying he's not a good driver he's great. I must root for Alonso I like his driving style and I like the underdog rather than the F1 equivelant of the Yankees.

^You do realize that Red Bull has 1 title to Ferrari's dozens? Not sure that qualifies Red Bull as the Yankees.

As for the FIA, what will be Todt's next decision that they later overturn?

oldsaw wrote:

Streetwiseguy wrote: I don't think Vettel is the second coming, but you gotta be nuts to think he's not the real deal. I would wager, though, this same conversation will happen next year when he's a two time champion, well on his way to a third.

Where's that +eleventy billion smiley when you want one?

Just watching him run a Torro Rosso in the wet was enough to prove he can drive. He is also still young. He was a wet-behind-the-ears kid when he started in F1. I expect he will only improve unless he loses his enthusiasm like Kimi did.

z31maniac No I didn't know that about ferrari I only started watching f1 last year so idk. Nurburgring is this sunday that should be interesting.