Streetwiseguy said:And protests have been launched.
Masi's decision to have SOME of the lapped cars go by and not All the lapped cars will be the basis of one protest I'm sure.
Edit: .....and might the cars that weren't allowed to pass have a complaint in that they were kept back from the guys right in front of them and were prevented from improving their positions on the final lap?
accordionfolder said:In reply to MrFancypants :
That was an example of a single decision varying in swing depending on which side of the fence you're on. Max got lucky this race, it's not like he wrecked Latifi and then forced the FIA to make a decision.
He didn't win the championship by being lucky in a single race.
"That's motor racing"
I'm still concerned for Latifi's well-being.
It wasn't just a single decision, the regs clearly state that you can't pull the safety car in until all the cars have unlapped themselves. They pulled the safety car in on the same lap that *some* of the cars unlapped themselves.
This isn't a "that's motor racing" situation, this is race control blatantly not following their own rules.
What teams did not get a chance to unlap themselves? Wonder if any of them will protest also.
06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:I noticed Sky sports didn't even try to talk to Toto, at least on ESPN'S coverage.
I found a pirated copy on YouTube.
In reply to adam525i :
yes, Masi had a choice of letting all lapped cars unlap themselves or start race with everyone as they were on the track, but instead he does this never-been-done-before thing of letting only the lapped cars that were between the leaders unlap themselves. All the teams operate in the realm of the rules and standard operating procedures, now suddenly the race director is making a decision to let a driver get a clean shot that he shouldn't have
Before the race ai was telling coworkers that either Lewis wins it or Max wins with an astrix and Massi loses his job. I preferred option 1, but it looks like it'll be option 2
So if Mercedes wins the protest - and from what Alfa has posted, it looks like they have reasonable grounds - will the last lap be deleted?
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Which protest? The improper restart one or the Max passed before the start line one?
In reply to Keith Tanner :
This seems pretty clear to me. If they had pulled in the safety car when the regs say they were supposed to the race would have ended under the safety car, with all positions ending as they were when they restarted the race.
If Max keeps the win it'll be the most hollow victory in the history of professional motorsports.
MrFancypants said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
This seems pretty clear to me. If they had pulled in the safety car when the regs say they were supposed to the race would have ended under the safety car, with all positions ending as they were when they restarted the race.
If Max keeps the win it'll be the most hollow victory in the history of professional motorsports.
I dunno. Winning a championship on the stewards office is a bit hollow as well.
I hope it all just goes away, really, and I'm a Lewis guy.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Which protest? The improper restart one or the Max passed before the start line one?
I assumed it was about the safety car shenanigans. Don't know about passing before the start line, but I can see how that might have happened when Lewis had the handbrake on.
MrFancypants said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
This seems pretty clear to me. If they had pulled in the safety car when the regs say they were supposed to the race would have ended under the safety car, with all positions ending as they were when they restarted the race.
If Max keeps the win it'll be the most hollow victory in the history of professional motorsports.
Will be far worse to reverse especially after awards and such.
The result will stand, but the protests will set precedent for new/clearer rules changes.
I think that Lewis got done over but I hope Mercedes' drops it and we all move on. If they get it reversed it will have a huge asterisk next to it.
The regulations are clear on what should have been done, instead we got something else. If they had been followed I think Max had a really good chance of getting the win, the 5 cars in between would have gotten out of the way as soon as the safety car line was crossed and Lewis would have had a gap but Max would have reeled him in pretty quick. How it ends in that scenario we won't know but I think that was what should have happened in my opinion. The other option would have ended under the safety car. Neither driver had any effect on the decision the FIA made but will pay the consequences for it.
Right now it is Max Verstappen world champion*, if somehow they give it to Lewis (I'll be very surprised) it will be Lewis Hamilton world champion*
The race director really berkeleyed this one up.
ztnedman1 said:MrFancypants said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
This seems pretty clear to me. If they had pulled in the safety car when the regs say they were supposed to the race would have ended under the safety car, with all positions ending as they were when they restarted the race.
If Max keeps the win it'll be the most hollow victory in the history of professional motorsports.
Will be far worse to reverse especially after awards and such.
The result will stand, but the protests will set precedent for new/clearer rules changes.
The championship hasn't been awarded. That's done at the banquet on Thursday. Right now, there's only a race win. And the rules seem pretty clear already.
At least we're not dealing with an on-track incident with all the judgement calls that entails. There's very little grey area here.
I feel for Masi here. He was in a real spot where no matter what he did, there were going to be a ton of complaints. Where Charlie would have shined here was in the confidence that came with all his experience. Masi just doesn't seem to be able to make tough calls in a timely fashion. Maybe he doesn't have the same encyclopedic understanding of the rule book, but it seems like he gets stuck trying to figure out what to do. We've also seen how he makes a decision - like lapped cars won't overtake - and then reverses himself.
If this was the best the FIA could do in terms of making sure that they were grooming a new race director, someone really needs to reevaluate their management techniques.
A potential thrilling race ending for a championship was abandoned under the guise of a "spectacle".
Max, on fresh tires, chasing down Lewis, on old tires, to the finish. The outcome would've been an excellent ending to 2021 season.
I don't think that was going to happen, though. Max wasn't quite fast enough and the tires had leveled off. It would have taken a puncture or some other external event to get him past Lewis.
If Latifi lands in a Red Bull/Alpha car in the future people are going to go crazy lol
In reply to New York Nick :
Well I guess that didn't happen
Keith Tanner said:. . . some other external event to get him past Lewis.
You ain't wrong Keith. I don't think Max had a chance for the same reasons you posted. Luckily for him, external events greatly helped him.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:McLaren and Red Bull will get race wins, but Merc still gets most of them. Sir Hamilton does great, but loses the WDC to Verstappen in a nail biter. Merc wins the WMC but barely as RB and McLaren mount serious challenges. Alpine is bridesmaid all year with podiums and no wins but looks good. AM fades, Ferrari struggles, HAAS makes Marussia look like a good team. AT throws in some surprise performances. AR does the exact same thing they've done the last three years. Williams folds up shop.
Page 5:
Alonso and Vettel with both get podiums, Riccardio and LeClerc will win a race, Hammy and Verstappen take the rest and go 1/2 (or 2/1) in the WDC. HAAS to the rear, Alfa in 9th, Williams 8th, and then it's a bloodbath between AT, Alpine, Ferrari, and AM in the middle with Mercedes, RB, and McLaren dicing it up for the WCC. Mercedes and McLaren 1/2 (or 2/1).
Well let's see how my predictions aged.
McLaren and Red Bull will get race wins - 12 of them! Yes
but Merc still gets most of them - 9, so No
Sir Hamilton does great, but loses the WDC to Verstappen in a nail biter - CALLED IT! Yes
Merc wins the WMC but barely as RB and McLaren mount serious challenges - Right on the winner and first challenger, but not on my boys McLaren. Yes enough.
Alpine is bridesmaid all year with podiums and no wins but looks good - Ocon with the surprise win in Hungary and Alonso podiumed in Qatar, well done Alpine! Yes
AM fades - All the way to 7th. Yes
Ferrari struggles - I mean they did, but they also got 3rd in the Constructors, 4 podiums, and made some great progress. I'll say I was wrong on this one. No
HAAS makes Marussia look like a good team - Hahahahahaaa! Yes. The whole "when did Mazespin last spin" website, going like what 4 races before even completed a lap, and scoring 0 points. Yes
AT throws in some surprise performances - Poor Gasley had a win pulled out from under him and just 1 podium to show for the year despite excellent driving. Yes
AR does the exact same thing they've done the last three years - Well, yes. Sorry Kimi, you deserved better than a couple of 8ths. Yes
Williams folds up shop - Yes and no. Williams sold out and Sir Frank passed on, but Williams is still here. Who knows what it will be called in the future though, and sure isn't the family team it once was. Draw
Alonso and Vettel with both get podiums - Vettel in Azerbaijan (and nearly again in Belgium?) and Alonso in Qatar. Yes Yes
Riccardio and LeClerc will win a race - Riccardio wins Italy, LeClerc should have won Great Britain but Lewis was gifted that penalty. Yes and draw
Hammy and Verstappen take the rest and go 1/2 (or 2/1) in the WDC - Ocon won in Hungary, but Bottas took out a bunch of cars damaging Verstappen, so I'll say Yes
HAAS to the rear - Yes
Alfa in 9th - Yes
Williams 8th - Yes
and then it's a bloodbath between AT, Alpine, Ferrari, and AM in the middle - Yes! The middle pack was up in the air all season and had numerous changes. Alpine barely pipped AT by the end of the season. Good shows! Yes
with Mercedes, RB, and McLaren dicing it up for the WCC - In the words of Ozzyman, yeah yeah naw. Right on Merc and RB, wrong on McLaren. They did early and had that 1/2 in Italy, but ultimately it was Ferrari that put together 3rd. Still it's 67% Yes
Mercedes and McLaren 1/2 (or 2/1). - Yeah naw Yes No
Final tally:
18 Yes, 3 No, 2 Draw
Yes on the WDC (Max), yes on the WCC (Merc), yes on the race wins and podiums, yes on 8/9/10 in the WCC. Basically if I had cllaed Ferrari instead of McLaren for 3rd I would have been clairvoyant.
Let's check the end of the thread first though...
My money is on they take each other out on purpose and Masi decides to DQ them both for the season for the press handing (checks to see who is in 3rd and 4th) Perez the title who wins the race over Bottas in 10th.
Okay, probably not, but with the way this season has gone WWE it's at least a non-zero chance.
Ahahahahaa!! Okay, so I was wrong on them taking each other out, but hoo boy did I call the FIA making it a WWE spectacle!
and
I think even more relevant is where everyone else is. Perez is behind Lewis and Bottas is back in 6th. Perez also towed Max in qualifying and Bottas didn't do anything for Lewis. The teamwork and or lack thereof could play a role.
Yes. Perez held up Lewis like a boss and Bottas did nothing.
Chalk up 2 more in the Yes.
You can PayPal money for next year's betting predictions!
Toto on the radio to Massi
Thinking back, I think Perez driving the widest F1 car in the world was the highlight of this race.
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