Formula 1-2021 Season

Bottas missed the chance to be best wingman of all time by not crashing behind the safety car.  But otherwise, he was pretty useless, stuck behind Lando and Charles for ages.  

I'm completely gobsmacked Mercedes didn't pit Lewis for Mediums during the VSC, which would have left ~22 laps to run.  He had a brand new set in the garage.  Keith's suggestion of coming in when the SC was first deployed and only pitting if Max came too is similarly brilliant.  They got beat on strategy today.  They had the car to beat Max even if it meant momentary loss of track position, 20+ laps would have been more than doable.  

The end felt like a farce.  A red flag and 5 laps to race would have been more appropriate, I think, and probably more dramatic.  The lapped cars who didn't get to unlap themselves lost out on any chance of last minute battles for position.  

For next year, they need to amend the red flag rules such that if there's less than ~10% of the race distance remaining, it is red flagged by defualt, tires may be changed like for like, or like for harder, if no similar compound is available, from the lap the red flag was called.  I hate to see races end under caution, but Nascar-esque fake green/white/checkers are lame too (notwithstanding the fact that cars are fueled for race distance and rarely any more than that, so going more laps wouldn't work).  

Masi is unfit for his role, but was in a no-win scenario.  But, he sucks at his job, so there's that.  He picked the worst possible time to flip personalities.  

Team principals should not be allowed to speak to Race Control, only the Sporting Directors from each team should get that opportunity.  No lobbying should be allowed outside of answering/asking direct questions to get to the bottom of situations.  

....71 days until winter testing begins!

BrewCity20 said:

In reply to steronz :

Latifi's crash just put Lewis in a no-win situation. 

Well the situation in which Lewis wins is the one where the race ends under a safety car.  And as much as people hate that, it happens all the time.

Hamilton had a bit of E36 M3 luck there after having a pace advantage the whole race, and had the crash happened 2 laps earlier like I hypothesized, he would have had no recourse.  But it didn't happen 2 laps earlier, and so Masi had a decision to make -- rush the restart so the championship ends under green flag conditions, or don't.  And with the tire situation as it was, deciding to go green meant that Verstappen winning was nearly a foregone conclusion.  Which means, in a sense, the race director decided the outcome, and that doesn't sit well with me.  The reason we have these rules in black and white is so that judgement calls don't affect the outcome.  And so, why do we have unwritten rules specifically to add judgement to a position that shouldn't be adjudicating?  Rules like "lap 1, let them race" and "let's not end on a yellow flag."

On the other hand, this was one lap in 21 race championship.

I remember when F1 used to be a sport, and not just entertainment.  I miss those days.

Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

In 1978 James Hunt was DQ'd from a race win because his car was too wide. That win was reinstated 2 months later and Hunt went on to barely nip Lauda for the WDC.

Just FYI - this took place in 1976, not '78. 

People keep bringing up Mercedes not pitting for tires during the VSC and the SC and I still don't see the logic in that.

For the VSC they could have brought Hamilton in for a fresh set of hard tires when it first came out (if Mediums were an option at that point Max surely would have gone to those so the only conclusion is that they would not last until the end). Max most likely stays out in this scenario in the lead on old hards. Now Lewis has to catch and pass Max (who has shown already in this race that he is very willing to run you off the track) on tires that are better, but not that much better as Max showed us. Max may have pitted as well behind Lewis but we end up with them both being on fresh tires, in the same positions and gap as before the VSC (within reason) and no change to the results.

Could've Lewis pitted on his second time past the pits under the VSC after Max pitted on the previous lap? I was watching his onboard through the race and screaming at him to do that but just as he went by the pit entrance onto the main straight the VSC ended, Mercedes was obviously watching the removal of the Alfa and knew that was about to happen and the opportunity gone. 

For the Safety Car once again there is the opportunity to pit when it came out but once again that hands Max track position and the lead of a race that has a good chance of finishing under the safety car . There's no chance Max follows Lewis into the pits in this scenario so he is left out on decent hards in the lead and Lewis has to pass him provided the race actually restarts (Cue Max running Lewis off the track).

By the rulebook Mercedes made the right call leaving him out for the SC, either the race finishes under yellow or it restarts with 5 cars in between Max (one of them there because Max stopped for softs) for 1 lap, how else are they supposed to base their decisions?

Also, I can't believe he didn't try to defend the inside at T5 on the last lap.  Sure, Max would have likely gotten him around the outside, but at least make him work for it a little.  

In reply to adam525i :

I wish I knew when they called the full SC, as it seems that it happened after Lewis passed the pit entrance.  As a yellow, yea, there was no chance he would have gotten out faster.  But with a SC, until it picks up the leader, there's a speed target they would hit, right?  

With just the yellow, Max closes at full speed until he hits the yellow zone, with the SC, doesn't he have to slow to VSC rates, which would open a good window to pit?

But, yea, teams make decisions based on the rules and how they are supposed to be applied.  

In reply to BrewCity20 :

Sorry, I didn't see your second question- as I was probably typing the other one, but it is the exact same answer that TheTallOne17 posted.  It's either let all the lapped cars go, then catch up with one more lap under SC, and then go;  OR at the discretion of the director, let none of the lapped cars go, and just start in the order they are on the track.

They hybrid application was not part of the rules.

glyn ellis said:

Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

In 1978 James Hunt was DQ'd from a race win because his car was too wide. That win was reinstated 2 months later and Hunt went on to barely nip Lauda for the WDC.

Just FYI - this took place in 1976, not '78. 

For the same tiny amount of infraction, Hamilton got to keep his DQ from Brazil qualifying.  

stylngle2003 said:

Also, I can't believe he didn't try to defend the inside at T5 on the last lap.  Sure, Max would have likely gotten him around the outside, but at least make him work for it a little.  

Yeah, that was bizarre to me as well. I guess he thought he would get the up-and-under and be able to back by him down the straight? But to not even defend seemed strange. 

I suspect he though Max would just ram him off the track if he took the inside line.

Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

All the huffing and puffing about the FIA manipulating the rules and championships is hilarious. Have any of you ever followed F1 before? 

In 1978 James Hunt was DQ'd from a race win because his car was too wide. That win was reinstated 2 months later and Hunt went on to barely nip Lauda for the WDC.

1989 Japanese GP, Prost (a Frenchman) tries to take Senna out but fails, Senna makes the most epic of drives and wins, is declared WDC and then the FIA (headed by a Frenchman) DQs him for not "rejoining where he left the track" and gives the title to Prost.

Heck just in 2010 there was the no team orders "Fernando is faster than you" that Ferrari got to keep. The FIA was the business of Ferrari Assistance for years.

You are more guaranteed to get organizational drama with F1 than nearly every other car racing.

A good summary, do you care if I steal this to post it somewhere else?

In reply to accordionfolder :

So past inconsistencies are an excuse to continue them??  Or change the rules in the middle of a lap?

Seems to me that using that an the "reason" is a good way to push viewers away.

Especially when the epic best ending would have been a red flag.  Head to head on even tires, multiple laps.  That would have been exciting over confusing.  And nobody could have accused the FIA for taking sides.

z31maniac said:

stylngle2003 said:

Also, I can't believe he didn't try to defend the inside at T5 on the last lap.  Sure, Max would have likely gotten him around the outside, but at least make him work for it a little.  

Yeah, that was bizarre to me as well. I guess he thought he would get the up-and-under and be able to back by him down the straight? But to not even defend seemed strange. 

I suspect he though Max would just ram him off the track if he took the inside line.

We were shouting at our TV screens that they would take each other out and Max would win or Lewis would let him by and Max would win.  Merc missed two chances to save their race.  Noone's fault but theirs.  Yes there was a ton of weird crap that happened but still.

adam525i said:

People keep bringing up Mercedes not pitting for tires during the VSC and the SC and I still don't see the logic in that.

Not pitting under VSC was the right call at the time, as we saw he had plenty of pace on the older tires to keep the lead.  If they'd known there'd be a SC later they might have done something different, but you don't expect that.  Abu Dhabi is not a track that has lots of safety cars.

Pitting under the real SC would have just resulted in Verstappen staying out and RBR lobbying Masi to finish under yellow instead of going green for one lap.  We can only guess what Masi would have done then.

Christian Horner is pretending that Mercedes made a bad call to try to legitimize a championship won on the basis of a gift from an official ignoring the written rules.  Either go green without letting any lapped cars though, or do them all.  Passing those 5 lapped cars and them Hamilton (which he had a decent chance of doing) would have been great racing and would have earned the championship on merit, rather than one that will be forever tainted.

Yeah, Max had the strategic upper hand in both safety cars because he knew what Lewis was doing.

I would rather the radio calls to the stewards not be broadcast. They don't make anyone look good.

alfadriver said:

In reply to adam525i :

I wish I knew when they called the full SC, as it seems that it happened after Lewis passed the pit entrance.  As a yellow, yea, there was no chance he would have gotten out faster.  But with a SC, until it picks up the leader, there's a speed target they would hit, right?  

With just the yellow, Max closes at full speed until he hits the yellow zone, with the SC, doesn't he have to slow to VSC rates, which would open a good window to pit?

But, yea, teams make decisions based on the rules and how they are supposed to be applied.  

Did a quick re-watch of the incident on board with radio coms with Max and Lewis.

00 sec - Lewis is notified of double yellows and has to slow down to VSC type speed as he is in the double yellow zone. Max was 12 seconds behind at this point but not in double yellow zone so going full clip.

+10 sec - Lewis on crash scene passing Latifi in T14, double yellows change to Safety car. Lewis told to not box. Max has just entered zone and goes to reduced speed for SC/yellows but has closed gap on Lewis.

+24 sec - Lewis at pit entrance, has already been on the radio talking to Bono, saying they can't pit.

+38 sec - Max told to box just after passing crash scene, Lewis 14 seconds past pit entrance

+ 42 sec - Max in pits gunning it towards the speed limit sign

+60 sec - Lewis picks up very slow moving safety car (they stretched those SC laps to give time to clean up in my opinion)

+100 sec - Max picks up safety car at crash scene, so he is on that group with Lewis now 5 cars ahead before the lap is complete and Lewis has another opportunity to pit. 

So Lewis took 20 seconds to go from the pit entry line to the pit exit line on track catching the safety car and maintaining the proper speed, Max took 38 seconds between those same lines in the pit lane making his stop for softs. If Lewis still had his 12 second gap (he didn't as he was slow for an extra 10 seconds over Max in the double yellow zone before the Safety car was declared) he would still come out of the pits 6 seconds behind Max. 

alfadriver said:

In reply to accordionfolder :

So past inconsistencies are an excuse to continue them??  Or change the rules in the middle of a lap?

Seems to me that using that an the "reason" is a good way to push viewers away.

This. Watching the highlights and analysis took a lot of the wind out of my "excited for 2022" sails.

OK in an effort to simplify this discussion repeat after me: 

If you are a Hamilton fan: "where the  f*@#K did Latiffi learn to drive, bastard!!"

If you are a Verstappen fan: "I love Latiffi, he's the most awesome driver ever!!"

As a McLaren fan:

Don't care either way but the memes are gold!!

Here's a good overview of yesterday's race... 

https://www.goodwood.com/grr/race/modern/2021/12/seven-talking-points-from-an-unbelievable-abu-dhabi-gp/

And blaming Latifi is totalling incorrect....

In reply to accordionfolder :

Heck no steal away. Hunt was 76. If you do some searching you can find dozens more. Crashgate, McLaren's Spygate, Superlicense drama, etc. There's at least a half dozen around Michael Schumacher. 

In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :

Hey, it's expected the teams/drivers will do everything they can to get around the rules and that the FIA follows them to a T, that's what is fun about it! lol

Call me a bad fan, but how was Stroll's 100th Formula one race for him? I am looking forward to seeing how Aston Martin does next year.

In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :

Gracias!

Preach, Hamilton is such a legend.