Consider this guys. If not for the VSC just a lap after Max's pit stop I think the result would have been wildly different. Without the VSC, the rest of the field would have been another 21 laps on hard tires that were already 20+ laps old, while Max and Checo were on fresh mediums.
Javelin said:Alonnnnnsssssoooooooo
This has either not aged well, or aged perfectly. Lolz. I hoped for him, Russell, or Lando to win this one.
triumph7 said:Consider this guys. If not for the VSC just a lap after Max's pit stop I think the result would have been wildly different. Without the VSC, the rest of the field would have been another 21 laps on hard tires that were already 20+ laps old, while Max and Checo were on fresh mediums.
Didn't we get to see what would happen with this? The Mercedes did this but we're already WAY ahead of the red bulls. I'm guessing it wouldn't have finished much different. Max would have been 4th or maybe 5th.
Also, red bull didn't have a set of fresh new mediums.
Edit to say: first and second didn't pit and they still finished there even with the mercs (who had more pace than rb all weekend) pitting for mediums.
I just don't see rb doing much better than they did. Great drive from verstappen with the car he had under him! I was amazed he finished as high as he did.
triumph7 said:Consider this guys. If not for the VSC just a lap after Max's pit stop I think the result would have been wildly different. Without the VSC, the rest of the field would have been another 21 laps on hard tires that were already 20+ laps old, while Max and Checo were on fresh mediums.
At the pace of the field, they both would have rejoined the race behind Bottas. Dead last. They would not have had the pace on their old hards to build any gap on the field on their fresh hards, then would have been hung in a 16 car drs train on their fresh mediums. Notice how the Mercs were unable to pass into the lead? I think Max finished about as well as he was ever going to.
In reply to Streetwiseguy :
I actually thought Lewis had much more pace than Russell all race. When in front of Russell the first few laps he seemed to be going with the Ferrari. Then with the mediums at the end he was pushing Russell most of the way. I think Lewis Hamilton would have won if he entered the pits under VSC and Russell stayed out.
wvumtnbkr said:759NRNG said:WOW, now y'all can sleep tonight knowing that the RB's do have their moments. That was the only way for lh to obtain a podium much thanks to GL.....not looking for much in the way of making y'all smile in the remaining schedule......and no I'm NOT
Doesn't lh have a bunch of podiums this year?
Yup. This was Lewis' 5th podium of the season.
Javelin said:wvumtnbkr said:759NRNG said:WOW, now y'all can sleep tonight knowing that the RB's do have their moments. That was the only way for lh to obtain a podium much thanks to GL.....not looking for much in the way of making y'all smile in the remaining schedule......and no I'm NOT
Doesn't lh have a bunch of podiums this year?
Yup. This was Lewis' 5th podium of the season.
And he's now third in the driver's championship. I think both he and George are dragging that car a lot higher up the field than it should be.
In reply to triumph7 :
From what I have heard, RBR expected 7th. And since two cars in front of them retired, 5th is that.
Hey guys,
I have been kinda distracted over the past month.
What happened to make RedBull mid-pack racers?
I think I saw a reference to a wing change?
Something else?
Thanks,
Rog
Well, the FIA did issue a technical directive that was intended to get rid of some gray areas regarding flexible body parts. The commentators during the race reported that Horner said no changes had been made to their car as a result, but of course you know that Horner will always say what's best for Horner's story.
Could have just been an off weekend where they got the setup wrong, could have been that they weren't allowed to run any magic sauce parts. I don't think we'll know for sure until we have another couple of races under our belt.
Keith Tanner said:Well, the FIA did issue a technical directive that was intended to get rid of some gray areas regarding flexible body parts. The commentators during the race reported that Horner said no changes had been made to their car as a result, but of course you know that Horner will always say what's best for Horner's story.
IIRC, the other claim was that the kinds of games you can play with flexy parts aren't a huge benefit at a street circuit like Singapore. But yes, it's definitely an interesting coincidence.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I think it was the RACE that mentioned that RB had essentially a 3 pc plank allowing different sections of the floor to flex independantly of other sections.
Sounded like it meant they can't run lower then everyone else now and lost the magic.
Was thinking that was the massive change made to the Redbulls. The announcers quietly mentioned it and than said "It's can make that much difference".
Verstappen can clinch the Championship within the next two races; it was mentioned somewhere but I think they are putting everything into next years car.
In reply to Tom1200 :
I'm surprised it's gone this far into the season, honestly. Red Bull has to be within a whisker of taking the constructor's championship as well.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to Tom1200 :
I'm surprised it's gone this far into the season, honestly. Red Bull has to be within a whisker of taking the constructor's championship as well.
Compared to 2002 (when Schumacher locked it down in July), we've got more races (17 vs 22) and the season goes much later in the year (mid Oct vs late Nov). There was also more of a premium for winning then (10 points was 38% of the total available in a race) vs now (25 points is only 32% of the total)
kevlarcorolla said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
I think it was the RACE that mentioned that RB had essentially a 3 pc plank allowing different sections of the floor to flex independantly of other sections.
Sounded like it meant they can't run lower then everyone else now and lost the magic.
The Race also posted that thanks to the track roughness, they could not run low for fear of wearing the plank too much. Which destroyed the concept. Spa had a similar issue, but the drivers could drive around the grounding issue- and still be faster around the rest of the track.
alfadriver said:kevlarcorolla said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
I think it was the RACE that mentioned that RB had essentially a 3 pc plank allowing different sections of the floor to flex independantly of other sections.
Sounded like it meant they can't run lower then everyone else now and lost the magic.
The Race also posted that thanks to the track roughness, they could not run low for fear of wearing the plank too much. Which destroyed the concept. Spa had a similar issue, but the drivers could drive around the grounding issue- and still be faster around the rest of the track.
At Spa they were apparently lifting through Eau Rouge to manage it while everyone else was flat. I remember being surprised that the Redbulls weren't blowing by the other cars down the following straight most laps but then they'd be close enough to actually make the move, go flat sacrificing some plank and just blow the doors off the other cars. Makes more sense now.
So George hit the outside wall, broke his car and then went straight on into the barrier when he crashed out. What is wild is Lando did the same thing grazing that wall just ahead of him same lap, another inch and Lewis would have been second with two cars buried in the wall. Crazy
Not seeing a replay at the time it looked like George just locked up and went straight in.
RedBull definitely missed it in qualifying, but their race pace looked pretty good. Max drove from 11th to 5th on a track where passing is nearly impossible even though he had 2 safety cars come out at just the wrong moment. I'd bet on things being back to normal this weekend.
CrashDummy said:RedBull definitely missed it in qualifying, but their race pace looked pretty good. Max drove from 11th to 5th on a track where passing is nearly impossible even though he had 2 safety cars come out at just the wrong moment. I'd bet on things being back to normal this weekend.
He drove to 7th -- Russell and Ocon DNFed in front of him.
Doesn't matter, those safety cars hit at different times and RB is on the podium. Add in missing Q3 and this wasn't RB performance being poor, it's just that the car wasn't above the noise here and they had a bad weekend. MB, McLaren, Ferrari and Aston have been playing in that sandbox all year. RB played in that sandbox in Monaco too, but Max pulled pole and then was able to manage from the front. Only time RB looked outclassed this week was after the SC restart, but they were very much on the wrong tire then. The other teams(including the winner) looked just as poor vs those on mediums.
This weekend will confirm either way though.
In reply to ztnedman1 :
The RBs never looked on pace to challenge the Ferrari/McLaren/MB pace in Singapore. The data for everyone was a bit skewed by Ferrari strategy to keep the field of cars bunched to prevent undercut chances. The SC and VSC may have even helped RB look better as they seemed to make ground on top 5. But I think without either safety car The Ferrari/McLaren/MB guys would have eventually turned on the speed near their pitstops. And depending how they went either Ferrari would slow down again or have to push hard to the end.
The Jolyon Palmer recap video seems to imply that Redbull had to run x a ride height due to the bumpy track and that just made the car unstable in all kinds of ways. They couldn't lower the car or tune it out. Back in the early 2000s they would have flown in a bunch of new parts by Saturday Morning to "try" a fix. Ha, million dollar try..
In reply to Advan046 :
Interesting, sounds similiar to the issue Mercedes has with the original zero pod concept W13 that continues with the W14. I think Mercedes is still looking for the "sweet spot" with the car WRT ride height.
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