Formula 1 2023 Season

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

That really is the only difference but that isn't a good argument against my point. In both cases, the car going around the outside did not clear the inside car before turning in and in both cases the inside car could have backed out of it but did not. The only justification is that one can come up with is that the inside car could not turn in sharper because there was a car there but I would argue that George, on his medium tires couldn't have turned in sharper even if Perez wasn't there because he didn't have the grip

wvumtnbkr said:

Tom1200 said:

Booooooooooring.

There were some moments and the heat had the drivers working hard but it was still boring.

Really?  There were passes every lap and varying strategies.  I thought it was excellent!

Yes, boring. Sure there were passes but no really great battles.

Throw in Verstappen walking away with it and it wasn't that great.

I was entertained by it but I'm a die hard since 76.

In reply to loosecannon :

No one mentions why both Max and Lewis had comprimised entries....Max running Lewis within an inch of the inside wall screwed them both.

 No idea how F1 can be considered the top level of racing with that being an acceptable move,along with being fine to run a car off track to the outside unless being ahead at the apex.

 Complete nonsense.

maschinenbau said:

I keep reading this, but I don't buy it. These are the best drivers in the world. They came up in carts, up through the feeder series and into F1. All of those cars are so incredibly different, and to make it this far they've had to adapt quickly. Red Bull clearly has an advantage but Perez is unable to adapt and capitalize on it.

The ability to adapt to different cars is far from ubiquitous.  In fact, that's one of the things that makes the best F1 drivers as great as they are.

Look at Vettel in 2014 -- sure, the Mercedes were stomping everyone, but all of a sudden Vettel was getting beaten by his RBR teammate Ricciardo.  It wasn't that Danny Ric was a massively better driver than Vettel was, it's that the car changed and Vettel had a hard time adjusting.  This kind of thing happens all the time.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith Tanner said:

Yeah, he's gonna have to own that one. Just didn't leave George any room. 

I think Hamilton is starting to age out of being at the top of F1.  One thing I've noticed is that when the best drivers get close to 40, they start making stupid mistakes like that -- misjudging close passes and tearing corners off of cars, stuff that they would never have done earlier in their careers.  My hypothesis is that they're used to having the reaction time to make stuff like that happen without really thinking about it.  Reaction times slow down as we age, and at some point it starts to betray them.  Schumacher did similar things when he came back to drive for Mercedes and Kimi did it as well the last couple years he was in F1 too.

Alonso seems to be at least a little bit of an exception to this, though.

 

 

I hate to agree with you, because I've been a Hammy fan since the beginning, screaming at the TV when he beached it in China when he could have won the WDC as a rookie. 

When I watched that yesterday, I just changed the channel. I thought, "Come on man, you're better than that" and then he goes on the radio and says his teammate took him out. Bad look.

As soon as he saw the video he acknowledged it was his fault.   Stuff happens fast at T1.  Great chance in real time he didn't know it was a 3-wide situation.

Most the passes were created by the stupid DRS.  Except for Russell at T6 many times.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

I think it was multilayered with Vettel, he wanted to leave for Ferrari (RB wanted him to stay) and I don't think his heart was into making the car better. I think like his hero Schumi he had the ability to make a car better. However he differs from Alonso or Hamilton who seem to be really good at maximizing a weak car (perhaps there super aggressive approach), but bad at car development. 

Sorry to see Logan having to stop, I thought the commentators were pretty tough on him. Hoping some luck hits in the American rounds to help his stock.

z31maniac said:

When I watched that yesterday, I just changed the channel. I thought, "Come on man, you're better than that" and then he goes on the radio and says his teammate took him out. Bad look.

I'll cut him some slack -- that was heat-of-the-moment, right after the hit.  No one ever thinks its his own fault at that point.

When they interviewed him back in the paddock 30 minutes later (race was still going on), he was apologetic and fully accepting of responsibility for it.

Hammy gets a 50k fine for crossing a hot track https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.stewards-hand-out-reprimand-and-fine-to-hamilton-after-qatar-grand-prix.4QXWOLmsILMeAWBo3vjeOJ.html

Just a bad day all the way around.. 

Props to Alfa for getting a double points finish.

What was Sergio doing in the Sprint?  

Big of Sargent to park it rather than write off another car.  Easy to pick on him during the race but considering how many other drivers were struggling to get out of the car after the race, seems like it was a good call on his part.  

It was tough listening to Sargent in the car. He wasn't the only one hurting. You could see it in the green room with Oscar and Max sitting or lying on the floor.

According to @racefeeling:

Sargeant - Had to retire from illness
Ocon - Threw up in his crash helmet
Alonso - Asked for water to be chucked on him as his seat was so hot
Stroll/Albon - Struggling to get out car, went straight to the FIA medical centre
Norris - Said drivers fainted after the GP
Bottas - Said race conditions were “torture”

Sports illustrated says Stroll actually fainted momentarily during the race  https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/f1-news-scary-footage-released-of-lance-stroll-fainting-during-qatar-grand-prix-lm22

Piastri didn't look too good after getting out of his car.

Crazy money will cause folks to sell out and have a race in a sandy, windy desert, in hot weather.

maschinenbau said:

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

JimS said:

I'm a casual follower of F1 so I don't know all the little inside news. So I have a serious question. How do you know that Perez's car isn't set up for him?

I would expect that the easily-adjustable parts of the setup are adjusted to Perez's liking.  That said, though, some of the driving dynamics are inherent to the design of the car and for that you have to pick one of your drivers to have it suit him.  If one of your drivers is a multiple world champion and the other has just won a handful of races, it's pretty obvious which one you're going to pick.  From what various people in the paddock have said in interviews, it seems that Verstappen likes a car that drives differently to the way many/most other drivers prefer it.

I keep reading this, but I don't buy it. These are the best drivers in the world. They came up in carts, up through the feeder series and into F1. All of those cars are so incredibly different, and to make it this far they've had to adapt quickly. Red Bull clearly has an advantage but Perez is unable to adapt and capitalize on it.

It goes well beyond set up. Karting is not a good parallel because the chassis are cheap and you can pick one up that fits your driving style. 

As a parallel I offer this:

Historically Yamaha YZ MXs bikes were designed in a way that you turned them on throttle. You can adjust some that out but then you end up with other issues and the bike is not as fast as if you are a rider who's natural tendency is to steer with the throttle. 

No amount of adjustments will overcome inherent design characteristics. In this case the car has been designed around Verstappen's driving style. 

Perez is not suddenly rubbish; the basic design of the car was changed/optimized to work for Verstappen as Max is the faster of the two drivers. 

Perez is stuck in the unenviable position of having to drive around a car not designed for him.....RB is not going to change the chassis to suit him. Very very few racers at this level can change their style that radically. Valentino Rossi is the last person I know of to successfully change their natural style.

These guys are also competing at a level where being off the pace by 0.5% means you're dropping nearly a half second per lap at Qutar.

I’m guessing most of you heard this by now:

PIRELLI CONFIRMED AS FORMULA 1 GLOBAL TIRE PARTNER UNTIL AT LEAST 2027

PIRELLI’S INVOLVEMENT AT THE PINNACLE OF MOTORSPORT ­­­– THE ULTIMATE OPEN-AIR TEST LABORATORY TO TRY OUT NEW TECHNICAL AND PRODUCTION SOLUTIONS – CONTINUES.

THE PARTNERSHIP ALSO SERVES TO MAKE FORMULA 1 MORE SUSTAINABLE:

FROM 2024, ALL THE F1 TIRES USED WILL BE FSC CERTIFIED (FOREST STEWARDSHIP COUNCIL)

Milan, October 10, 2023. Pirelli has extended its presence in Formula 1 as Global Tire Partner, after Formula 1© and the FIA (Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile) accepted the Italian tire firm’s offer for the three-year period from 2025 to 2027. There is also the additional option, from the FIA and FOM, to prolong the partnership for a further season. This latest agreement, set in motion with the technical dossier received from the FIA in June, has been ratified by the FIA World Motor Sport Council and nominates Pirelli as sole supplier to the FIA Formula One World Championship as well as the Formula 2 and Formula 3 championships.

By the end of this latest contract (including the possible extension), Pirelli will have supplied Formula 1 for 18 consecutive years, having opened its most recent chapter in 2011. Throughout that era, Pirelli has been at the forefront of all the technical challenges posed by the pinnacle of motorsport. From its debut in 2011 with 13-inch high-degradation tires to hybrid power units in 2014, then wider tires from 2017 before moving to the current 18-inch size from 2022, Pirelli has always risen to the occasion with reliable products through every type of surface and weather, supporting the teams, the FIA, and Formula 1 in a timely and flexible way.

Pirelli’s commitment to Formula 1 – as is the case with all forms of motorsport, where the firm has been present for more than 110 years, in over 350 championships worldwide – represents an extraordinary opportunity to innovative and experiment with new processes and technologies. These include artificial intelligence: all with the aim of technology transfer onto the road.

Pirelli is not only Formula 1’s tire supplier but also a global partner in the worldwide promotion of the sport, thanks to a number of initiatives both on and off the track. These include projects aimed at bringing on the next generation of young drivers throughout all the different feeder series – notably Formula 2 and Formula 3.

In addition, Pirelli supports the environmental sustainability targets set by Formula 1, as the sport has pledged to be Net Zero Carbon by 2030. The company is on the front line of research and development – together with the FIA and Formula 1 – into innovations on both a sporting and technical level, to complement the work already carried out to reduce CO2 emissions throughout the entire life cycle of a Formula 1 tire.

As a further demonstration of Pirelli’s sustainability work, starting from 2024, all tires used in FIA Formula One World Championship events will be FSC®-certified (Forest Stewardship Council®)*. FSC forest management certification ensures full traceability of forest based materials along the supply chain andconfirms that the plantations of the forest-based components of the tires are managed in a way that preserves biological diversity and brings benefits to the lives of local communities and workers, whilefostering economic sustainability.

Marco Tronchetti Provera, Pirelli Executive Vice-President:

“We’re delighted to extend or presence in Formula 1 and its other related championships. Pirelli was there when Formula 1 was born in 1950, and with this latest renewal, the firm will now be a protagonist throughout nearly two decades of the modern Formula 1 era. Thanks to the impetus from Liberty Media and the support of the FIA, the sport is enjoying an extraordinary period of growth both in terms of audience and global expansion, increasing its following among younger generations as well. Innovation and technology are locked into Pirelli’s DNA, and Formula 1 constitutes the ultimate open air laboratory to not only try out and test new technical solutions, but also to accelerate fresh research, development, and production processes in making tires. I would also like to thank everyone at Pirelli for their passionate commitment and the quality of their work over the years, which will continue as we extend this partnership together. Our commitment to sustainability is equally strong, as proved by the FSC certification that will be introduced to our F1 tires from next year. Being at the forefront of motorsport’s pinnacle until at least 2027 adds another important value dimension to our company.”

Mohammed Ben Sulayem, President of the FIA:

“Pirelli has been operating at the top level of motor sport for many years and I am sure that they will continue to deliver innovation and excellence on the world stage. Formula 1 is a unique challenge for the tire supplier, and Pirelli has demonstrated great commitment to producing tires that meet the extreme demands of these incredible cars. I would like to thank Pirelli for its ongoing support of motor sport not only in Formula 1, but in many other championships and categories at every level. Work will continue in the coming years to take further strides both in terms of performance and sustainability, and Pirelli have made strong commitments to both of these targets.”

Stefano Domenicali, President and CEO of Formula 1:

“Since returning to the sport in 2011 Pirelli has been an invaluable partner, supporting Formula 1 through new generations of technology and technical regulations and delivering tires to enable fantastic racing for our fans. The company’s commitment to quality, innovation and their deep knowledge of our sport will be vital in the coming years as we approach our new regulations in 2026 and the work Pirelli is focused on relating to sustainability, proven by the FSC certification, will ensure we continue to work together towards our shared Net Zero 2030 goal.”

******

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I read a Jackie Stewart Biography talking about how he wouldn't drink any water and would have a coke before and maybe after a race. I recall reading something similar from sports car racer Elliot Forbes Robinson didn't drink. much water. The fan community conspiring on the environmental and other conspiracies. I just wonder if humans have peeked in some sports? I read that Stroll was passing out in some of the high speed corners, which is pretty concerning. If racing is trending in such I wonder if PEDs might become a thing, not for bulking obviously but the recover level (more like cyclist), it's surprising that it's not a thing. Especially since many drivers cross train with bikes and triathlons.

I mean they got to this point in the ground effects era where the g forces were so high. This was both heat and the intensity. The overnight low race evening was 97 F and some reports was roughly 104 F at the start of the race.

The silly season is off to a banging start, if this is true, I sure didn't see it coming.  

https://thejudge13.com/2023/10/13/source-perez-to-announce-retirement-at-mexican-gp/

Of course RB denies it but generally where there's smoke...

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/242778/red-bull-debunks-rumours-of-perez-retirement-announcement-in-mexico.html

In reply to 06HHR (Forum Supporter) :

If those statements are true it confirms what I believe about the car in reference to it not fitting Perez's drving style.

Any driver with a different style from Verstappen would be silly to take the second seat..............unless you wanted to make a bunch of money and retire after two years.

In reply to Tom1200 :

It also lends credence to Ricciardo returning to RB proper, at least he's been in the position before as Verstappen's wingman.  Whether that will work out for him this time or not remains to be seen.  But, he did leave on his own terms the first time so there's that. 

Tom1200 said:

In reply to 06HHR (Forum Supporter) :

Any driver with a different style from Verstappen would be silly to take the second seat..............unless you wanted to make a bunch of money and retire after two years.

Perez had 1 win and 10 total podiums in 10 F1 seasons before he joined RedBull. In his 3 years with RedBull he's accumulated 5 wins and 24 podiums. It would be hard to argue that his move to RedBull was a bad career move (even if you ignore that there were no other seats available to him) and I think any diver who wants to win some hardware and see how they stack up against the best would jump at the opportunity. 

06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

It also lends credence to Ricciardo returning to RB proper, at least he's been in the position before as Verstappen's wingman.  Whether that will work out for him this time or not remains to be seen.  But, he did leave on his own terms the first time so there's that. 

IMO the key to the 2nd RedBull seat is driving within your limits and getting the best result out of the car that you can. It seems that people get into trouble and make mistakes when they start trying to match Max's pace, which can lead to a downward spiral in form. I think we've seen that from Checco this season. I think you've seen the same thing at Aston Martin and Williams. Drivers who aren't matching their teammate's pace end up pushing too hard and making things worse. 

There's no shame in finishing 2nd or 3rd in your RedBull when Max is winning. In fact, the team will be very happy with that. He's probably one of the all time greats and the vast majority of F1 drivers won't be able to match him. The problems start when you keep making errors that result on missing out on Q3 and/or finishing 10th while Max is winning. 

06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

It also lends credence to Ricciardo returning to RB proper, at least he's been in the position before as Verstappen's wingman.  Whether that will work out for him this time or not remains to be seen.  But, he did leave on his own terms the first time so there's that. 

 I like Daniel well enough,but he's had shots in multiple teams.....move along into sports cars or whatever and give a young gun a chance.

In reply to kevlarcorolla :

I also like Danny, I don't think you are wrong though. Also there is a list of others that can probably go give another form of motorsporting a try. I am not even going to bash Sargeant on that one, he is young, may just need some time however there are a couple of Haas drivers, Alpine guys (one or both your pick), and A rich kid (who would probably be smarter to learn the business side and be in a great spot to be a team principal) who could all pack it in and see what the next crop of up and comers have. 

No hate towards any of them but where is the line of experience vs. youthful talent? I really don't know that answer.