markwemple wrote: For all those saying Rosberg should have left room.
Fernando says he should have left room:
markwemple wrote: For all those saying Rosberg should have left room.
Fernando says he should have left room:
markwemple wrote: For all those saying Rosberg should have left room, I'd love to have a day to get the videos together of the 100s of times Vettel and Schumacher didn't. Better yet. The times they shoved others into walls.
3 wrongs don't make a right. 3 left's do.
Wow, what a race. Just watched it.
I'm a huge Hammy fan, and while the incident was technically Nico's fault I'm happy with the Stewards calling it a racing incident. Hammy had such a flyer off the prior turn that I think Nico was just caught off guard. I've been quick to blame Nico in the past, but I really think it was an understandable mistake.
Less forgivable was Lauda jumping to a conclusions and also, while iI've been a big Vettle proponent, berkeley his whining. Danny made a hell of an attempt and he was crying on the radio, Boo.
Kyviat. HAHA you blew it big time, look at what your replacement did given half a chance.
Mini Maxi. Damn, not a fan, but that was a hell of a drive beyond his years. Nursing those tires for that long with a Ferrari breathing down his neck was a massive achievement. Kids got a future for sure.
How are people watching the race not live?
Son and I were both watching the race and were on the edge of our seats. Danny's dive under Seb was awesome. Don't care if he didn't make it or not. Like he said in the post race interview, at least he was trying to pass someone!
We were both torn in the last laps. We're both Kimi fans, but seeing Max win the race with very little time in a new car was awesome. Sure, it wouldn't have happened without the Mercedes fiasco, but he showed no mistakes and that he can manage tires VERY well. Someone mentioned that Kimi raced his dad when Max was three years old. That's just amazing to think about.
I agree with the stewards on the Nico/Lewis incident. You have two very aggressive drivers making agressive moves, both at fault. Lewis was obviously much faster (Nico was in the wrong setting) and thought he could pass. Checking up isn't something a driver is wired to do.....
Can anyone translate German? Around the 45 second mark Niki supposedly says something to the effect of: " Jos did everything the right way, beginning with the genes he shot into the mother of Max." 
-Rob
Great race. Been sort of behind this season because girlfriend has sunday mornings off. But glad I made time to watch this one. I was stomping around yelling when the mercs came togather.
Wow Max Verstappen! Congratulations! Don't like him to much but he did good. I was pissed at the red bull switching either car to a three stop. The red bull are usually known to be easy on the tires in sector three all weekend so passing opportunities would be slim for anyone following them. Sucks for Ricciardo.
As far as the MB guys. It was just a slight mistake on Rosberg part. From the Hamilton onboard, it looks like a fraction of a second pause in Rosberg moving right that could be taken as a signal to Hamilton that room would be left. At the end of the day Hamilton did all he could to not hit Rosberg but ended up back into him. Racing incident for sure.
Raikkonen is just as much an under told story as the red bull comeback. Wish I could be in Montreal again this year. Should be good.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: Kyviat. HAHA you blew it big time, look at what your replacement did given half a chance.
Don't forget Kvyat was on the podium a few races back and that was without any big names crashing each other out. I think it's more of a consistency issue for him and Max being another potential Vettel.
Ham "I decided to go across the grass" I felt like they both were being overly aggressive, but this quote sums it up as being more of Hamilton fault. Very optimistic to complete a pass in the grass, and just because you have a wing on the side of his tire doesn't mean you have to give him room. Good move by Nico to show dominance such as Hamilton did last year.
Listening to the BBC 5 live post race podcast it was confirmed that Nico was in the wrong engine setting and so was 180hp down coming out of the corner. Hammy was on the gas in the right engine setting so got a wicked launch off the corner compared to Nico's crappy one. As Nico was so down of power (his own fault for not changing settings) Hammy had an amazing chance and went for it. Having watched the replays Nico chopped hard hard hard after Hammy was partially alongside giving Hammy no where to go. It's textbook Nico fault. A) he was in the wrong setting meaning B) he was slow off the corner. C)Hammy got a good launch and a chance at a pass and had his front wheel in front on Nico's back wheel. D) at that point Nico had per the rules to give Hammy room for the car. He didn't, he chopped and put Hammy in the grass. Once on the grass Hammy was a passenger and had no chance. His car spun and took them both out.
It's text book Nico's fault, but I'll still give him the benefit of the doubt and call it a racing incident as I don't think down on power or not he was expecting Hammy to have a go and made an honest mistake. I bet if only Hammy had crashed Nico would have been assessed a penalty, as it is I think they let it slide.
jsquared wrote:Adrian_Thompson wrote: Kyviat. HAHA you blew it big time, look at what your replacement did given half a chance.Don't forget Kvyat was on the podium a few races back and that was without any big names crashing each other out. I think it's more of a consistency issue for him and Max being another potential Vettel.
Good point, but even in that race he'd been involved in controvercy and been part of an inceident that took out Vettle and ruined Kimi's race. I don't think it was his fault, but guilt by association.
Also I don't think he could have done what Max did yesterday. That was a hell of a drive nursing old tires with a faster car behind him. I think Kyviat's shown he makes mistakes when the chips are down and think he would have folded.
There is also the old truth that you're only as good as your last race in the eye's of many. I'm not a fan of either of them, but i have to hand it to Mini Max, that was a hell of a drive.
It's going to be interesting to see how Kyviat fairs against Sainz Jr as the rest of the year plays out. If he doesn't crush him I think he's gone from Torro Rosso at the end of the year. I actually rate Sainz very highly, luck aside I think he's performed just as well as Max has at Torro Rosso and it's just the golden boy chosen one Max Factor that has given Max the limelight. In fact I think Max has been a total dick at times, but that is, unfortunatly, part of being a top line driver.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: It's going to be interesting to see how Kyviat fairs against Sainz Jr as the rest of the year plays out. If he doesn't crush him I think he's gone from Torro Rosso at the end of the year. I actually rate Sainz very highly, luck aside I think he's performed just as well as Max has at Torro Rosso and it's just the golden boy chosen one Max Factor that has given Max the limelight. In fact I think Max has been a total dick at times, but that is, unfortunatly, part of being a top line driver.
And test #1, he didn't do too well. Could have been that Sainz just drove well at home, or that he's that much better of a driver.
It is interesting to see that outside of Mercedes, Max and Dan have had the same results- best of the rest of the field. But I do agree that given the pressure from Kimi, I think Kvyat may have crumbled. I thought Max did a great job knowing where the Red Bull was better, so that the DRS didn't give enough. And that pressure on Kimi made him drive his tires almost off. Which is also what Vettel did to Riccardio- Danny was WAY faster than Seb- given the lead that he quickly ate up. But he could not make it stick.
The whole issue of wing wash on the trailing car really makes me want a whole lot less downforce in the cars. I hate it in Nascar just as much as I hate it in F1 and Indycar.
Max moving over to RB and winning in his first rate had to be HUGE for Sainz' stock.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: That was a hell of a drive nursing old tires with a faster car behind him.
I've pointed this out before, but Max probably races against opponents in online sim leagues that are "scarier" than Kimi Raikkonen. In his free time, for fun.
MCarp22 wrote: Max moving over to RB and winning in his first rate had to be HUGE for Sainz' stock.Adrian_Thompson wrote: That was a hell of a drive nursing old tires with a faster car behind him.I've pointed this out before, but Max probably races against opponents in online sim leagues that are "scarier" than Kimi Raikkonen. In his free time, for fun.
Not sure how relevant that is. There's no pressure in sim racing. Mentally, you're comparing apples and aircraft carries.
Max's drive reminds me of one of Alonso's early wins in his Renault days. I think it was in Italy or something, but he had Schumacher all over him for the last few laps and held him off for the win. Looks like the kid is something special.
trigun7469 wrote: Ham "I decided to go across the grass" I felt like they both were being overly aggressive, but this quote sums it up as being more of Hamilton fault. Very optimistic to complete a pass in the grass, and just because you have a wing on the side of his tire doesn't mean you have to give him room. Good move by Nico to show dominance such as Hamilton did last year.
So, Hamilton trying to avoid hitting Nico is proof it's his fault?!? Riiiight...
I think the stewards report actually summed it up pretty well:
No. / Driver: 44 — Lewis Hamilton, 6 – Nico Rosberg Competitor: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team Time: 14:03 Session: Race Facts: Cars 44 and 6 collided between turn 3 and 4. Offence: Alleged incident as defined by Article 38.1 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations Decision: No further action. Reason: The incident concerned started when Car 6 dropped into an incorrect power mode, as set by the driver prior to the start. This created a significant power differential between Car 6 and Car 44 at the exit of Turn 3 coming onto the straight, resulting in as much as a 17kph speed difference between the two cars on the straight. Car 6 moved to the right to defend his position, as is his right under Art 27.7 of the Sporting regulations. Simultaneously Car 44 as the significantly faster car with, at that time, apparent space on the inside, moved to make the pass. Art 27.7 requires the leading driver to leave room, if there is a “significant portion” of the car attempting to pass alongside. Car 44 had a portion of his front wing inside Car 6 small fractions of a second prior to Car 44 having to leave the right side of the track to avoid an initial collision, which may have led him to believe he had the right to space on the right. Once on the grass on the side of the track Car 44 was no longer in control of the situation. Having heard extensively from both drivers and from the team, the Stewards determined that Car 6 had the right to make the maneuver that he did and that Car 44’s attempt to overtake was reasonable, and that the convergence of events led neither driver to be wholly or predominantly at fault, and therefore take no further action.
-Rob
markwemple wrote: For all those saying Rosberg should have left room, I'd love to have a day to get the videos together of the 100s of times Vettel and Schumacher didn't. Better yet. The times they shoved others into walls.
The rules that apply here are 27.7 and 27.8
27.7 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason. For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a ‘significant portion’. 27.8 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.
So one is not allowed to crowd another car off the track, and since Lewis had his wing inside Nico's wheel before going off, Nico did need to leave room.
But since both cars ended up equally penalized by what happened, no action makes sense.
rob_lewis wrote: Son and I were both watching the race and were on the edge of our seats. Danny's dive under Seb was awesome. Don't care if he didn't make it or not. Like he said in the post race interview, at least he was trying to pass someone! We were both torn in the last laps. We're both Kimi fans, but seeing Max win the race with very little time in a new car was awesome. Sure, it wouldn't have happened without the Mercedes fiasco, but he showed no mistakes and that he can manage tires VERY well. Someone mentioned that Kimi raced his dad when Max was three years old. That's just amazing to think about. I agree with the stewards on the Nico/Lewis incident. You have two very aggressive drivers making agressive moves, both at fault. Lewis was obviously much faster (Nico was in the wrong setting) and thought he could pass. Checking up isn't something a driver is wired to do..... Can anyone translate German? Around the 45 second mark Niki supposedly says something to the effect of: " Jos did everything the right way, beginning with the genes he shot into the mother of Max."
I have a hard time understanding Nikki in German, but from what I could get this seems more accurate (not my translation)
"Jos Verstappen has done everything perfectly. He has coached Max from his first steps, he has ensured that Max has so much confidence."
trigun7469 wrote: Ham "I decided to go across the grass" I felt like they both were being overly aggressive, but this quote sums it up as being more of Hamilton fault.
I think that you misunderstood his statement.
Between a choice of:
Which do you choose?
alfadriver wrote:markwemple wrote: For all those saying Rosberg should have left room, I'd love to have a day to get the videos together of the 100s of times Vettel and Schumacher didn't. Better yet. The times they shoved others into walls.The rules that apply here are 27.7 and 27.827.7 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason. For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a ‘significant portion’. 27.8 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.So one is not allowed to crowd another car off the track, and since Lewis had his wing inside Nico's wheel before going off, Nico did need to leave room. But since both cars ended up equally penalized by what happened, no action makes sense.
How does no action make sense?,one guy caused the incident the other did everything to avoid the incident.
Lewis was reprimanded for not going to the other side of the Cone after barely dropping two wheels last time out with no advantage gained.Woulda been more dangerous for him to try and make it to the left of the cone.
Here you have Nico CAUSING a collision and ending 2 drivers races,how that isn't a penalty I don't understand.
Just watched Roseburg push Hamilton off the track on YT. Hamilton was moving so much faster than Roseburg that the whole notion of 'defending' flips to simply Roseburg punting Hamilton off. How can you get alongside someone driving off the track? I'm of course happy nobody got hurt and glad the physics worked out such that Roseburg's day ended too.
kevlarcorolla wrote: How does no action make sense?,one guy caused the incident the other did everything to avoid the incident. Lewis was reprimanded for not going to the other side of the Cone after barely dropping two wheels last time out with no advantage gained.Woulda been more dangerous for him to try and make it to the left of the cone. Here you have Nico CAUSING a collision and ending 2 drivers races,how that isn't a penalty I don't understand.
Nico made one move to defend his position, he's allowed to do that. Lewis was closing on him faster than he thought, so that move ended up forcing Lewis off track. Lewis, on the other hand, started to attempt what would have been a totally clean pass had Nico stayed on the racing line. When Nico moved over, Lewis didn't have time to back off, so he went off and they hit. Per the rules, Nico did nothing wrong. He made a legal move that happened too suddenly for Lewis to react to. Racing incident.
However, I will say this: I think in years past Nico would not have made that move. He'd have held his line and lost the position, but continued on in the race. I think he's finally realizing how ruthless you have to be if you want to win a WDC. He's always been fast, but he's never had the killer instinct. Maybe all these years of getting schooled by Lewis are finally getting to him and he's decided that he's not giving up any more easy positions to him.
Tom_Spangler wrote: I think in years past Nico would not have made that move.
He made that exact move on Alonso in 2012 in the video I posted above.
Per the rules posted above Nico did not comply to the rules in leaving space so he did in fact do something wrong regardless of the closing speeds or the fact he screwed up the power settings or that he was looking at the steering wheel trying to correct while all that was going on.
kevlarcorolla wrote: Lewis was reprimanded for not going to the other side of the Cone after barely dropping two wheels last time out with no advantage gained.Woulda been more dangerous for him to try and make it to the left of the cone. Here you have Nico CAUSING a collision and ending 2 drivers races,how that isn't a penalty I don't understand.
Hamilton was reprimanded for the cone because he disregarded Charlie Whiting's explicit instructions in the driver's meeting beforehand and had no good reason to do so.
I suspect in this case that the stewards looked at it and said:
1) It's complicated 2) The only drivers involved are on the same team 3) The team is certainly going to come down on them internally like a ton of bricks 4) The end result was a race that was genuinely crowd-pleasing, rather than another Mercedes runaway 1-2.
And they concluded that no further penalties were necessary.
(Personally I regard it as more Rosberg's fault than Hamilton's, but whatever)
You'll need to log in to post.
