Formula One - 2016

kevlarcorolla wrote: Per the rules posted above Nico did not comply to the rules in leaving space so he did in fact do something wrong regardless of the closing speeds or the fact he screwed up the power settings or that he was looking at the steering wheel trying to correct while all that was going on.

Had Lewis crashed, and Rosberg was not touched, I'm sure he would have gotten something. But the result of him doing something stupid was being crashed out of the race. He penalized himself.

That's why it makes sense to me.

codrus wrote: (Personally I regard it as more Rosberg's fault than Hamilton's, but whatever)

For all- don't get me wrong- I'm fully with this. No question in my mind it was more Nico than Lewis.

But the result was Nico crashing. What bigger penalty than that can they give? That's bigger than a grid spot penalty, or even a drive through or stop/go penalty.

He was only in the wrong for a very short time, and got punted for it.. Done.

codrus wrote: (Personally I regard it as more Rosberg's fault than Hamilton's, but whatever)

Rosberg's power setting error and subsequent delayed fix puts him more at fault. Hamilton was no angel as he should have anticipated that small window of opportunity to become a slit within a fraction of a second.

They both screwed-up, both paid a big price, they delivered their own penalties to each other; i.e., a racing incident.

Ferrari needs to fix some dirty air aero problems and tell Seb to calm down just a little bit. Ricciardo needs better luck and Max is the real deal.

I honestly have no idea why any sane person would find this more Nico's fault. Hamilton was NOT along side until there was less than a car's width. Hammy went for a gap that was closing. He is getting desperate. To make a banzai maneuver on the first lap was nuts. He let his anger of getting passed on the start get to him. That, among other reasons is why, if I were Mercedes, I'd place it squarely on his shoulders. He took his teammate out. Period.

markwemple wrote: I honestly have no idea why any sane person would find this more Nico's fault. Hamilton was NOT along side until there was less than a car's width. Hammy went for a gap that was closing. He is getting desperate. To make a banzai maneuver on the first lap was nuts. He let his anger of getting passed on the start get to him. That, among other reasons is why, if I were Mercedes, I'd place it squarely on his shoulders. He took his teammate out. Period.

Nope. Lewis drove all the way onto the grass to avoid hitting his teammate. Lewis only collected Nico after he had already crashed trying to avoid him.

markwemple wrote: I honestly have no idea why any sane person would find this more Nico's fault. Hamilton was NOT along side until there was less than a car's width. Hammy went for a gap that was closing. He is getting desperate. To make a banzai maneuver on the first lap was nuts. He let his anger of getting passed on the start get to him. That, among other reasons is why, if I were Mercedes, I'd place it squarely on his shoulders. He took his teammate out. Period.

It wasn't a banzai move. It sort of looked like one because you rarely see that kind of speed difference between two F1 cars except when someone is making a super late braking pass, but they were coming out of a corner, not going into one, so nobody was on the brakes. Nico screwed up his engine settings and was thus massively down on power compared to Hamilton, and when you're an F1 driver and the guy ahead of you makes a mistake that big, you go for it.

markwemple wrote: I honestly have no idea why any sane person would find this more Nico's fault. Hamilton was NOT along side until there was less than a car's width. Hammy went for a gap that was closing. He is getting desperate. To make a banzai maneuver on the first lap was nuts. He let his anger of getting passed on the start get to him. That, among other reasons is why, if I were Mercedes, I'd place it squarely on his shoulders. He took his teammate out. Period.

If he charged that way going into a corner, it would be a banzai move. When you have 80 more hp, and that much faster, and should have easily passed on that short straight, that's not.

Nico made an easy mistake- he had the car in the wrong settings. So a 3 car lead coming out of the corner was gone by halfway down the short straight.

If you want to see it as a desperate move, feel free. But Nico made what should have been an easy pass on a hurt car into a 2 car accident.

By your measure, Hamilton should not have tried to take advantage of any other car that was slower than him.... There was a BIG gap on the right. But Nico made a beeline to cover up his mistake. Not cool.

Best start of a race - EVER! In Nico's defense, the mirrors are the size of a business card, so I doubt that he could tell how fast Lewis was coming. But if you look at the overhead shot, it doesn't look like there was any way he eas going to make that turn fron the very inside of the turn. If Lewis would have touched his brakes, he could have avoided going into the grass and probably passed Nico - cause he wasn't going to make that right turn from the right side of the track.

markwemple wrote: I honestly have no idea why any sane person would find this more Nico's fault. Hamilton was NOT along side until there was less than a car's width. Hammy went for a gap that was closing. He is getting desperate. To make a banzai maneuver on the first lap was nuts. He let his anger of getting passed on the start get to him. That, among other reasons is why, if I were Mercedes, I'd place it squarely on his shoulders. He took his teammate out. Period.

Maybe I'm not sane, but I gotta disagree. Rosberg came out of the corner on to the straight at a good deal less than full song because he berkeleyed up his start settings. Hamilton, on the other hand, was going full power and had full momentum. There was no way that Rosberg wasn't getting passed on the straight and he knew it, or should have known it as soon as his car bogged in the turn. Anyone that has had any basic race training knows that your straight speed is determined by your exit speed. For him to throw his slower car in front of a faster car, especially forcing the car off the track, was a stupid move. Hamilton had all the momentum in the world to pass and he knew it. He wasn't going to throw on the binders way back when he had an easy pass in his sights. I think Rosberg bears most of the blame. If you have a stricken car where everyone else is on the track at 10/10ths you stay on your line and become eminently predictable. Throwing a block in that situation is not going to end well.

Guys, HIS CAR WAS NOT STRICKEN OR DAMAGED, OR WHATEVER! Can we get that part clear. please? He had it on the wrong setting and was correcting that when this went down. Sky did a good report on this. Try to find it and then express your opinions. It shows Hammy was not alongside when Rosberg moved over, nor was he alongside when there was a car width gap. Hammy's move was simply too aggressive. Plus, since they both drive the same car, he should have known Rosberg was in the wrong setting and probably going to correct it. Once Rosberg made his ONE move, Hammy should have backed off, but he didn't. Boom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAJXvJMYglc I didn't watch the race, but I did watch this video. Shows things very well. It almost looks like Rosberg was having issues and tried to pull out of the way just as Hamilton made a move to the right. Bad timing, but it appears that Hamilton had some time to react and either brake or lift, but he just kept after it. Bad decision on Hamilton's part in my opinion. Should have zigged left instead of zagging right. Rosberg did leave the racing line open.

In reply to markwemple:

Yes Nico berkeleyed up. His car was down 180hp coming off the corner. Hammy saw the car ahead going slow having just blown past him at the start. Any racer worth his or her worth is going to go for it when the car ahead is going slow. Nico berkeleyed up and Nico closed the door way way hard. The whole thing was over in 1/100th of the time it's taken to type this. Technically it was Nico's fault but Hammy was pushing it. Overall I'm happy with calling it a racing incident.

In reply to markwemple:

But that put him 75hp down. Seems pretty stricken to me. Just seeing that Lewis closed that fast on a short straight demonstrates how bad it was- he caught him in the middle of a short straight.

BTW, the definition of how much crossover before yielding is the front wing to rear tire. Hamilton had that, but Rosberg kept going over. Heck, when track space ran out, his front tires were up with Rosberg's rear. And passing on a straight- that's a pretty clear definition that space should have been given.

Sure, Lewis could have decided to stay on the racing line. But so could have Nico.

There's one move that is allowed, Then there's moving to force a guy off who had enough to make him give enough space.

Funny how people proclaim that Hamilton should have more patience- but this track is really hard to pass. See Ricciardo and Kimi. This was the best chance of the race- since he had a big power and speed advantage coming out of the corner.

Lewis wasn't too aggressive, he just chose the wrong side.

But it is interesting what people want to see when they watch the same thing.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

180, 75, same thing..

the end result was pretty big speed difference. That kind of closing usually happens going into a corner, not coming out.

Anyway- we are heading to one of Nico's favorite tracks. One of the tracks that we want to visit really badly. Plans are being laid, but it's still a long way out.

alfadriver wrote: Lewis wasn't too aggressive, he just chose the wrong side.

And in the post race interviews, Lewis made the comment that he could have gone left or right, but the right side had much more space, so that's the one he chose. Note below how much space is on the right v. the left when Lewis starts to move. Plus, being a seasoned driver, Lewis probably also knows that being on Nico's right, even if Nico picks speed back up, will put him on the inside of the next turn.

Further (to add fuel to the discussion), in the above Sky video, Lewis makes the move to the right. Nico moves over to defend. There is a critical point where Lewis's front wheel is even with Nico's rear.

At that point, his right side tires are off the track, but the left would still give him enough traction to continue. If Nico stays there, both drivers come out OK just lots of puckering. If Lewis jumps on the brakes, however, the car will pull to the left and INTO Nico because the right side tires have no traction. Absolutely causing a wreck. Nico continues to move over, so Lewis is forced to keep moving to the right to avoid a collision. It's possible, Lewis could have kept is straight, gotten back on the track and resumed racing. BUT, that grass is way too tall, he loses traction, so he continues at the same speed, Nico's now turning, so he's losing speed and Lewis's car catches Nico and the wreck occurs.

Lewis took what he thought was an obvious pass. Nico defended and continued to move, putting Lewis in the grass. No harm no foul at that point. It happens all the time in F1 where a defender will move an aggressor over right up to a wall (like coming down the straight). Since those moves are on asphalt, both drivers can continue. If the defending driver continues to push, the aggressor will get shoved into the wall and most likely collect the defender. In this case, there was plenty of room, but the zero traction on grass is why it didn't work the same.

I still agree it was a racing incident especially since both drivers suffered from it.

-Rob

I want to get Keith's take on Nico's new steering wheel notes:

I just watched the GIF highlights from FP today, seems like there were a lot of issues with traction on the super softs.

POLE!!!!!

All that practice on Krazy Karts with Filhipino paid off.

I was serving on a jury once. Two shiny happy people fighting. One got the worst of it and the other was charged with assault. That is what we have here, two shiny happy people fighting. Both lost in this case. Nico screwed up. Hamilton took advantage. Nico shut the door in a predictable direction. Hamilton kept the petal to the metal anyway; even while being forced onto the grass. Hamilton could have backed down and moved the fight to another corner later in the race but his ego overpowered reason. Nico could have yielded to his "team mate" and also brought the fight to a future corner but HIS ego overpowered reason. Mercedes ought to send a bill to both of them for a car.

What was the deal with Lewis' qualifying run and his series of warmup laps? Was he waiting for clear track, or screwing up the first corner, or what?

I hope Ricciardo doesn't pull a Senna and take himself out of the lead. It sure looks to me like he should walk away with this race.

In reply to Streetwiseguy:

Engine had problems to start Q3 so he got off to a late start, and just used the one driving time.

It's too bad, given that he had some great pace- makes one wonder if he really could have challenged Daniel or not.

Kind of funny how we see, again, pole and last on the grid by the same team.

Red Bull on the pole in Monaco. Since Verstappen's "promotion" to the main team, they've gotten a win and a pole. Coincidence? Maybe. Or maybe Verstappen is one of those drivers that has the ability to raise everyone else's game around him. Either way, I would never have predicted this. I thought Ferrari was the only team to seriously be a consistent threat to Mercedes. I like being wrong sometimes. Sunday's race could be amazing.

Good for Daniel! What a great, iconic, and historic track to nab your first pole on.

Ncjay, I'm with you. I expected Ferrari to be on top too.

Tomorrow should be an exciting one!