Formula One - 2016

oldsaw wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: I think Hamilton would have been defensive, but not so clumsy as to just drive straight into his teammate. There's a difference between "aggressive" and "dumb".

I can't help but interpret that as, aggressive = successful and dumb = not successful.

I think it is more like Hamilton would turn in, make the apex and leave 101% (well 90% plus some curb and grass) of a car width on exit and if Nico was still along side at that point, hold Nico on the outside into turn three where the outside line is a bit harder to maintain with the marbles.

At least Nico would have a sporting chance to make a better corner out of T2. Instead Nico just blocked on entry without hope of either making a good corner out of T2.

Exactly. There was no way that move was going to work out well. It was a gamble that Lewis would come out with more damage than Nico would.

Actually there is a strait with a small kink in it then a down hill in to a right hander so as long as Nico kept Hamilton on the outside he would have the better line in to the next corner. From there on it is a series of sweepers to the last corner and then a drag race to start finish. So Nico would have had a definite advantage being on the super soft tire and should have won it had he decided to not play pinball.

Even if Nico and Hamilton had said side by side for the rest of the lap Nico would have had the inside line for four of the next six corners.

dean1484 wrote: So Nico would have had a definite advantage being on the super soft tire

I'm not sure that the super softs were an advantage that late into the stint. There was a lot of graining on Nico's tires at that point.

red_stapler wrote:

dean1484 wrote: So Nico would have had a definite advantage being on the super soft tire

I'm not sure that the super softs were an advantage that late into the stint. There was a lot of graining on Nico's tires at that point.

That and Rosberg had a brake-by-wire problem so he was braking early for most corners (except that one, apparently). Hamilton was significantly faster at that point, so if he'd let him get alongside he probably would not have been able to hold him there.

I think Rosberg either wasn't thinking, or has concluded that since he has more points at this point, a collision is strategically advantageous to him.

A dnf for both was the best Nico could hope for points wise at that point in the race. Unforchinitly for Nico he was thinking of that verses a second place finish to Hamilton. I don't think a forth place finish was one of the options he considered.

Has the brake issue been confirmed? I am still not buying that.

I am betting that is what Hamelton was told by the team. That is what I would have told him if I was the team manager. That was a PR move that they had to play to keep things civil and give Nico an out for the incident. I also don't remember Nico saying he had a brake issue in the post race interview. And again there was no noting of it in the FIA report of the incident.

Hamilton towed the team line in both post race interviews and because he won the race I am sure he was happy to do so. We can only speculate as to what he would have been saying had the shunt taken his car out of the race.

If the positions had been reversed, what would everyone be saying? If Nico had been on the outside Hamilton would have done the same thing.

Actually it seems to me Hamilton had already done that to Nico, so that move was right out of Hamilton's play book.

The way I see it Hamilton struck his team mate while trying to overtake (on the outside).

Hamilton has never played nice with Nico, he has never yielded, and will chop off Nico at any opportunity. This was a role reversal which I can see how Nico (to keep his balls) had to execute.

Hamilton got lucky he didn't break his RR jumping Nico's LF, he was not far enough ahead of Nico to turn in.

In fact Hamilton (as seen in the pics) started his turn long before Nico without knowing where Nico was going to turn in and Hamilton had a full car width or more to the white line on the outside at the point of contact. So he was crowding Nico as much as Nico was pushing him.

This is F-1, there is no sporting conduct.

I blame the team as much as Nico, if they had gotten Hamilton out of his pit on time on SS tires none of this would have happened. The team wanted Nico to win because he costs them less money......

dean1484 wrote: Has the brake issue been confirmed? I am still not buying that. I am betting that is what Hamelton was told by the team. That is what I would have told him if I was the team manager. That was a PR move that they had to play to keep things civil and give Nico an out for the incident. I also don't remember Nico saying he had a brake issue in the post race interview. And again there was no noting of it in the FIA report of the incident. Hamilton towed the team line in both post race interviews and because he won the race I am sure he was happy to do so. We can only speculate as to what he would have been saying had the shunt taken his car out of the race.

Rosberg's car was making a lot more brake dust during the race than Hamilton's, and I've seen a few reports that he was nursing a problem with the brake-by-wire system. I don't think the braking issue was related to the collision, except perhaps that it gave Nico a slower lap time towards the end of the race, thus helping Hamilton to catch up to him in the last few laps. Hamilton's car was clearly significantly faster in the last couple laps.

I think I should have prefaced my post to indicate that I was talking about a theoretical situation of roll reversal and how it would have played out if Hamilton was being caught by Rosberg.

Rosberg catching Hamilton.... HA! Absurd basis of this hypothesis.

In reply to Advan046: You forgot DE jr. Kyle is gaining ground too.

Then there is the argument, should Joey have let Kurt back in line after he pulled out ?

In reply to bentwrench:

Ya ok,have another look...I don't see how Hammy could've left ANYMORE space than he did,coulda fit half the grid between him and the apex.

No need for Scooby doo Rosberg flat out drove into the side of him(I call bullE36 M3 on the brake failure deal as well),case closed.

Well if Nico's hands were reversed I'd have to agree, but he is obviously turning towards the inside.

Hamilton's car contacted his team mate (and took him out) while overtaking.

I insist that Hamilton would have done (and has done) the same thing to Nico in the past.

There is nothing for us to argue about because the team set that up by stalling Hamilton in his pit.

It is up to the team to deal with this, there will be no crucifixion of either driver (this has happened before).

The team should have held Hamilton in his pit for 2 seconds longer, or gotten him out on time on SS tires.

One can't crucify the drivers when they are being manipulated by the team.

If Nico rolls over for Hamilton, he will have to roll over every time Hamilton gets near him.

Why should he not defend as aggressively as Hamilton would?

Hamilton started his turn long before Nico turned in, Hamilton expects Nico to just leave the door open?

Not going to happen.....

It's not how much room was to the inside of Nico, it's how much room there was to the outside of Hamilton.

They are both at fault, Hamilton for expecting Nico to yield, and Nico for closing the door.

I am certain Nico intended to run Hamilton off the course just like Hamilton has done to Nico in the past.

However Hamilton is at fault for colliding with his teammate while attempting to overtake.

Nico was well within his rights to use the whole track on that turn, we all know Hamilton would have....

If Nico had hit the back of Hamilton, that might be a different argument.

Ok, I am not sure you understand how much room is needed to complete the corner, but that is about what Lewis left. When he began his turn in, he would have ended up on the extreme outside of the corner. Just as he entered it. He only took what was needed. And sorry, Nico hadn't turned in because he wasn't even looking toward the apex. He waited to see Lewis turn in. Because Lewis was ahead at that point.

Now, if you want to bring up Canada, yeah I get your point. Lewis pushed Nico out at the beginning of the race. Same tactic, executed differently. Lewis allowed Nico to initiate the turn, but closed the door on exit as he was ahead. Nico didn't even allow the entry. One is aggressive, one was clumsy/dumb.

You guys can argue back and forth all you want. I'm eagerly anticipating Silverstone to see what happens next. The F1 rules and the teams support a system that promotes this kind of driving behaviour, so just sit back and enjoy the show.

In reply to DeadSkunk:

For some reason, I thought it was Friday and I could watch practice. Oops.

This is one race we want to see in person.

Silverstone could mean rain, which could mean fun for Jensen.

I've said it before- all F1 tracks need to have sprinklers surrounding the track. One hour before race time, a token is pulled from a hat to determine whether the race is dry, damp or wet.

Wet races are always more fun to watch.

I'll see your rain token and add two more, pulled at 1/2 and 3/4 distance. A change in conditions during the race is always more fun than one that's consistent.

I like it.

Keith Tanner wrote: I'll see your rain token and add two more, pulled at 1/2 and 3/4 distance. A change in conditions during the race is always more fun than one that's consistent.

Yes last year's race was awesome for that.

I am looking forward to this weekend. Jenson needs that last win and at his home race no less. So I am betting on Verstappen ramming Vettel into Hamilton, while Rosberg runs off track into a gravel trap. Well maybe need a few more cars to crash out to make that dream reality.

I wonder if Totos threat of parking one of the boys for a race will be enough to keep them separate?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125180/mercedes-willing-to-suspend-drivers

I have been driving, admittedly not on the same planet as these guys, for over 20 years. What Nico did was try to run his team mate off the track. He never had any intention of making the turn, until Lewis was off track. Lewis did all he could and turned in. It is fair to expect the other driver to try to follow the prescribed course! Nico was not driving the course, he was trying to wreck his team mate. I have no patience for him.

McLaren isn't too far back. Williams never seems to show their pace in practice. I hope they get up close to the MB guys.