Formula One - 2016

In reply to codrus:

So Seb knew exactly who could hear him. There's no realistic way a sporting official would not react to that via penalties or something. They do that in every other sport.

In other words, Seb very much earned that 10 second penalty.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to codrus: So Seb knew exactly who could hear him. There's no realistic way a sporting official would not react to that via penalties or something. They do that in every other sport. In other words, Seb very much earned that 10 second penalty.

That's true, but at the same time I don't blame him for being frustrated. The rules enforcement has been very uneven this year.

Tom_Spangler wrote:

alfadriver wrote: In reply to codrus: So Seb knew exactly who could hear him. There's no realistic way a sporting official would not react to that via penalties or something. They do that in every other sport. In other words, Seb very much earned that 10 second penalty.

That's true, but at the same time I don't blame him for being frustrated. The rules enforcement has been very uneven this year.

I don't blame him for being frustrated. But rule wise, he could only be upset by Max's cutting the corner (which got penalized) and his on Danny. Otherwise- as long as there isn't weaving, the car behind should put the effort into passing.

And to react like that to the officials is incredibly stupid. First, if you get a penalty, you will get a harsh one. Second, in the future, it's highly likely that you will never get the benefit of the doubt. Next time Seb's in question, bang- penalty. Done.

You can't take officials to task that publicly. Every sport has evenness issues, and all of the have penalties for voicing things publicly.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to codrus: So Seb knew exactly who could hear him. There's no realistic way a sporting official would not react to that via penalties or something. They do that in every other sport. In other words, Seb very much earned that 10 second penalty.

So was Vettel penalized for moving under braking, or penalized for profanity to the officials?

If for profanity, then it should be explicit. I'm sure there's a penalty for "unsportsmanlike behaviour" or "bringing the sport into disrepute" or something like that. If that's the offense, then make it obvious that this is not acceptable and penalize him for it. That's what they do in other sports.

If it's for moving under braking then he got screwed. He did it to defend against Ricciardo -- a defense that he only had to make because Verstappen had broken the rules, the officials failed to enforce an obvious call, and as a result he got backed up. "Investigated after the race"? That's BS when the repercussions of the infraction are still developing out on track. In similar situations in the past, instructions from officials to reverse positions have come in less than a lap or two. The old standard was you got 4 or 5 corners to give up the position you knew you shouldn't have and if you didn't do it that quickly then you got a drive-through, none of this 5 seconds after the race stuff.

As for the profanity, I'm not defending that. I understand the frustration, but the driver is expected to be able to manage that. And yes, he said it knowing the director would choose to air it. You seemed to think there was a way for Ferrari to have kept that message from going out, and I was pointing out that this is not the case, other than the obvious of Vettel keeping his mouth shut.

Vettel used to get the benefit of the doubt a lot! A LOT!! Maybe this is karma.

In reply to codrus:

Well, he got penalized. If the question was so close, then it's pretty clear they reacted to the criticism.

It was interesting that they didn't immediately go for the "give him the spot" decisions. Not sure why. Again, perhaps they are limiting his benefit of the doubt, with all of the constant bitching of actual passes he had to make. Fair or not, humans don't like the be badly criticized, and will take that into account for the next set of decisions.

I think the biggest issue is again the stewards are very inconsistent race to race. I try not to get to worked up about it but it is frustrating as a fan to see:

Germain GP - Rosberg has to dodge a move under braking by Max which results in Rosberg having to use up the road at the hairpin exit at steering lock, thus leaving Max to go off track, and Rosberg gets a penalty.

MExico GP - Then Max actually out brakes himself and runs into Rosberg, Rosberg has to go off track. And Max just gets to sail on no penalty.

The start should always allow some leeway so I understand the difference but regardless feel rather uneasy about the inconsistency.

Liked the race overall. I was watching Palmer doing the best he could. As well as Bottas struggling with the Williams. I was again very impressed by Sainz*.

*except for running Alonso off track. that sucked

Regarding the Ricciardo pass attempt at the end of the race. I initially thought that Vettel was just putting pressure on Max not blocking. Then during the drivers' interviews he responded that he was watching Ricciardo and moving to defend rather than attack.

I guess we will have to see how the final two races go. I thought the racing was very fun to watch despite some of the penalty situations.

Agreed. It was an eventful race. Hopefully Ferrari will let Kimi have a fair shot. Bending over for Seb is so old! I hope Ferrari fires him and gets a better driver, like Danny, or...

This is the issue. I don't think Seb's move was out of line. The issue is that the moving under braking is almost impossible to legislate. The rule was implemented because of Mad Max. Some of his moves have been over the line. Him on Kimi at Spa was downright dangerous and he should have been made to stand down for a race for that move based on dangerous driving rules. But instead they tried to write a rule specifically because of some of his moves. Instead his team used that rule against the guy who's been crying foul about his driving. I don't blame Red Bull, I'd do the same, they are using the rules to their advantage. If I was Red Bull I'd watch Kimi and Vettle very carefully and file a protests against both drivers for every single move under braking they made in a whole race. I'd file like 15 protests against both of those drivers each Sunday until people realize it's stupid rule. The FIA should have come down on Max like a ton of bricks for Spa, but not Vettle for last weekend.

Williams confirms Canadian teenager Lance Stroll alongside Valtteri Bottas for 2017. After the success pick pig are having with Mad Max we've now got another teenager straight from F3. They had to wait for his 18th borthday to make the announcement to meet the FIA's 18 year old minimum age.

Details

I hope Lances Dads investment works out better than Alan Bergs Dads investment in Osella was. Sounds like Dad has pretty deep pockets, and it will be nice to have a Canadian in the series to follow again.

I think Rosberg will lock up the championship in Brazil. Hamilton has such a massive amount of bad luck here even when we won his championship on the last corner of the last lap he was in that position due to just bad luck and bad driving.

Advan046 wrote: I think Rosberg will lock up the championship in Brazil. Hamilton has such a massive amount of bad luck here even when we won his championship on the last corner of the last lap he was in that position due to just bad luck and bad driving.

Did you watch that race? The only reason Glock was in front of Hamilton is that with 3 or 4 laps to go it started to rain significantly and most of the field pitted for intermediates. Glock gambled staying out on dry tires, which moved him from 7th to somewhere around 3rd or 4th, but he was very very slow. Vettel and Hamilton passed him in the last couple corners because he was 8-10 seconds a lap slower than cars on the intermediates. As it is, Glock still finished 6th, one up from the 7th he would have been if he'd pitted for intermediates with everyone else.

So no, that Brazil result wasn't down to bad driving.

Anyway, I think the most likely result for the next two races is a Mercedes 1-2 with Hamilton winning both and losing the championship by 5 points. The Mercedes are fast enough that Rosberg can play it safe and finish 2nd, far enough ahead of the Ferraris & Red Bulls to stay out of trouble, but not pushing against Hamilton and risking anything. If bad luck falls Hamilton's way (weather, mechanical difficulties, whatever), then sure Rosberg could lock it up in Brazil, but if it falls Rosberg's way then we'll wind up with a race in Abu Dhabi where both of them are trying their best to win it. That would probably be the most interesting result. :)

Anybody who missed the Brazilian GP this morning needs to watch the replay on NBCSN at 7:30 tonight. Some of the best racing I have sen in a good while.

I couldn't believe Max's charge from 15th(ish) to 3rd. When he came in to switch off the inters to the full sets I thought they were giving up any chance at points.

It's a great race to watch with the aid of a fast-forward button, though. Skip past the safety car and red flag periods and the last 20-some-odd laps were amazing.

Seeing GUT's temper tantrum and hearing that his radio communication to the team couldn't be broadcast did answer THAT question. He needs a time out and a nap or something.

More talk in the driver debrief this morning than normal. I think they were all happy just to survive. Max's save was epic!

Max grabbed all the attention but Alonso spun and was in last and made it up to 10th on inters in a McLaren. Not too shabby. He also went from 16th to 7th range before the spin. Both times he had to pass Button who finished 16th range

hobiercr wrote: More talk in the driver debrief this morning than normal. I think they were all happy just to survive. Max's whole drive was epic!

FYP. That driving in the rain was amazing. It's too bad that Red Bull pitted him instead of leaving him on the same strategy as Mercedes. I may be a Hamilton fan, but I bet Max could have passed him. The lines he found to get grip were fun to watch.

And I was relieved that they were able to go the distance- instead of calling it due to rain earlier.

The front was very boring- but the rest of the pack was awesome to watch.

wae wrote: Seeing GUT's temper tantrum and hearing that his radio communication to the team couldn't be broadcast did answer THAT question. He needs a time out and a nap or something.

Well, if the teams play out as they are, GUT will get the entire 2017 season as a time out.

On the other side of the Haas garage, it was too bad that Grosean crashed before the race. For him to get the team's best qualifying position (tied) and not start the race is a shame.

Watching P2 on Friday, there was a lot of comment about Haas' core business, and how much he is ending up learning about that just to support the F1 program. Not sure if any other teams are getting some benefits to the core business due to F1- so it's nice to hear that that they are.

Sucks for grosjean.

I now understand why Gutierrez doesn't have a seat for next year (yet).

Crazy crashes, pretty much all in the same spot.

Max's drive was unbelievable. I think he had a shot at winning if they hadn't put him on intermediates there in the middle.

What an exciting race to watch.

alfadriver wrote:

wae wrote: Seeing GUT's temper tantrum and hearing that his radio communication to the team couldn't be broadcast did answer THAT question. He needs a time out and a nap or something.

Well, if the teams play out as they are, GUT will get the entire 2017 season as a time out. On the other side of the Haas garage, it was too bad that Grosean crashed before the race. For him to get the team's best qualifying position (tied) and not start the race is a shame. Watching P2 on Friday, there was a lot of comment about Haas' core business, and how much he is ending up learning about that just to support the F1 program. **Not sure if any other teams are getting some benefits to the core business due to F1** - so it's nice to hear that that they are.

Ever hear of Ferrari?

In reply to Rusnak_322:

Aren't they those guys who make really overpriced watches and sunglasses and E36 M3?

In reply to Rusnak_322:

I considered that, but Ferrari gets more advertising than actual tech that ends up making Fiat better.

Furious_E wrote: In reply to Rusnak_322: Aren't they those guys who make really overpriced watches and sunglasses and E36 M3?

An apparel company that makes cars.