In reply to Advan046 :
Just wait until Max does it again to him, and he will figure that out. Although, Hamilton did note that the move is now ok.
In reply to Advan046 :
Just wait until Max does it again to him, and he will figure that out. Although, Hamilton did note that the move is now ok.
I guess this whole thing about moving under braking and leaving room is to avoid flying cars due to wheel to wheel contact.
It isn't about being politically correct or polite. Drivers and Marshals dying does not have to be what F1 is about.
I have loved the races this year and when they give room we get the torro rosso teammate battle or the lando ricciardo battle or Leclerc Verstappen battles. All show how to leave room at the right time. And leave no room the other times.
In reply to Advan046 :
That makes sense. He definitely moved back to the right under braking, but how do we know it was a defensive move and not just getting back to the normal racing line that he as the car in front is entitled to? Didn't seem like anything bad too me, but I understand what you are saying and how it could have been. I'm sure if I was rooting for Hamilton to get past him and win, I would see it your way. Either way, it was exciting and interesting to watch. Just glad Lewis had the sense to go off and avoid a collision and then the skill to still make the corner. Seb would've spun 6 times in that situation.
In reply to Advan046 :
I don't think anyone is advocating for killing marshalls or drivers. You have been the only one to mention it. A little early to joke about it after Spa in my opinion, but whatever.
I understand moving under braking. I thought he was warned for forcing Hamilton off and not leaving room which is a 'rule' that is selectively enforced, even in the same race. Now I understand that he was warned for moving under braking which makes a lot more sense.
Here's the article from f1.com: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.fia-explain-use-of-f1s-yellow-card-for-leclerc-at-monza.43RcYITisZtxgpPhXn1Gye.html
According to Masi: "The rules remain with regards to a car's width of room. It's quite obvious here that Charles has squeezed Lewis and, consistent with what happened last weekend in Spa with Pierre Gasly, as a result it was the bad sportsmanship flag, or the black-and-white flag, that was displayed to Car 16 [Leclerc] for the move and the squeeze in the braking area."
So, it was a black/white because the move and squeeze but no contact. What I find weird about that is that by backing out this time, Lewis's actions meant that LeClerc only got the b/w. Backing out in Canada resulted in Seb getting a time penalty. Should he have risked keeping his foot in it and let LeClerc bang his front wheel so that LeClerc takes a penalty because there's contact? Maybe it's just ignorance on my part, but I have a hard time telling the difference between actions that get labeled as a racing incident and those that wind up getting penalties in a lot of cases.
In reply to wae :
Well, Vettel's penalty in Canada was an unsafe reentry to the track. The reason that he squeezed Hamilton was because he went off and back on in a manner where he was not really in control. Which is dangerous, and therefore gets a penalty.
What LeClerc did wasn't that. Heck, even when he did go off in the first corner, it was not an unsafe reentry of the track- he was in total control, and didn't force anyone else off. (unlike Vettel and Stroll in the same race).
LeClerc's move also didn't put Hamilton in a "I'm going to crash into the wal if I don't back out" situation, like in Canada.
Even so, LeClerc was doubly lucky- going over the speed bumps didn't break his car (that happens), and squeezing Hamilton slightly off track didn't crash both of them (Rosberg remembers that).
In reply to T.J. :
The concept is that with open wheel cars Hamilton cannot just back out of the situation without his front tire maybe hitting Leclerc's rear tire. So the idea is that as you approach turn 4 (left turn) you can defend all the way or part of the way to the left. If your competitor goes to your right you can go back to the right as long as you leave a car's width. Otherwise, with these open wheel cars, someone may go flying or wheels ripped off, etc.
So your one move to block doesn't mean you are stuck all the way on the left edge of the track going into the left turn. You can go back to the right to take as much of the line as possible as long as you don't run a competitor off the track. Leclerc went just too far right. In fact if he gave another 0.25m Hamilton would have stayed on track and in the braking duel he had a slight change of passing Leclerc but Leclerc would probably get him back easy on the way to the parabolica or down the pit straight.
Beyond that there are gentleman's rules about blocking too late as you get the Ricciardo into the back of Max at Baku situations.
I saw that Juan Manuel Correa, the other F2 driver from the crash at Spa, is in an induced coma. He has two broken legs, spinal damage, and a whole host if other issues. Hoping he pulls through.
T.J. said:In reply to Advan046 :
That makes sense. He definitely moved back to the right under braking, but how do we know it was a defensive move and not just getting back to the normal racing line that he as the car in front is entitled to?
Because that's making 2 moves? My interpretation of the rule was always, if you moved inside to protect against a late braker, you now have to deal with the compromised entry angle into the corner. If you move inside to protect the line, then move back outside, it's 2 moves.
z31maniac said:T.J. said:In reply to Advan046 :
That makes sense. He definitely moved back to the right under braking, but how do we know it was a defensive move and not just getting back to the normal racing line that he as the car in front is entitled to?
Because that's making 2 moves? My interpretation of the rule was always, if you moved inside to protect against a late braker, you now have to deal with the compromised entry angle into the corner. If you move inside to protect the line, then move back outside, it's 2 moves.
Also, if you have moved to the inside, and a car has closed on the outside, what is there to say that the leading car is entitled to that spot? Especially when it's more than a half a car? Being ahead gives you the right to defend your position, for sure. But I'm not sure that gives you the entire track as long as you are ahead by any margin. At some point, the following car has the right to occupy that space just as much- that driver is there, afterall.
IMHO, letting the leading car dictate who owns all of the track space allows them to make a mistake with almost no consequence. And that's not the way it should work, as I see it.
So for this instance, once Hamilton pulled along side of LeClerc, Charles had no right to that space anymore- especially since he moved to the left- he made a decision of where to go, Hamilton did the opposite- took some space, and that should have meant LeClerc gave up the right to it. You can't have it both ways.
Again, it was a good thing that Lewis didn't lose control of the car, as he would have likely taken Charles out- like he and Rosberg in Spain.
In reply to alfadriver :
I agree with what you are saying, but again and again in F1, they let a driver with less than a car’s length lead force the other car off. It seems that the rule changes in a braking zone. Sainz/Albon for an example. Sainz had the lead, did not leave a car’s width, hit Albon and sent him into the gravel. No flag for that. Sure Albon was not too wise to be out there, but in other similar incidents this season the commentators always say the leader is entitled to the racing line. I wish it were like you described, but most of the time it is not. That is why I am confused.
In reply to T.J. :
That's the biggest issue right now with F1. Inconsistent enforcement of the rules.
The cars width thing is true, but... I do some stock car racing. In a car with a spotter and a radio, the passing car can be considered to be "inside" once you have a fender at the rear tire. No spotter, no radio? You better have a wheel by the door at entry, or it's not your corner yet.
I would consider F1 to be more the second, due to no real spotters, E36 M3 happens way fast, and mirrors on a race car universally suck. So, if Lewis was fully alongside Chuck, it was an iffy move. Rear tires even with fronts? Not your corner yet.
Plus, the stewards didn't want to be taken out through the secret tunnel to avoid the lynch mob.
So now that Bottas and Ocon are settled. What seats are left?
Williams has a rookie that has proven himself so no need for the experience of Kubica.
Haas not really sure if they can pull another driver worth spending more money on. More likely they take on a Ferrari Academy guy if one has a license and brings money.
Ferrari?! If Vettel retires, who steps in? Ricciardo might not fit. Probably...idk
I think I read Perez and Stroll were signed to stay.
In reply to Advan046 :
Stroll's name is on the owners list, so he's not going anywhere, even though he's being out done all the time by his teammate. And Perez brings a lot of money (IIRC) along with his talent to the team. That seems quite stable.
IMHO, I think one of the Haas team is going. And while Grosjean is a supposedly a better development driver, everything I hear suggested still says he's gone. And many hope that Hulk takes his place.
And Kubica is going to make sure the threats get extended to the entire team as opposed to just Russel- as I see no need for him to stay.
Vettel. I dunno. I really don't. I'm not sure how he will react for the rest of the season as LeClerc stays in front.
In reply to Advan046 :
I doubt Kubica will stay unless he has more wheelbarrows of cash than I realized. I doubt that Ricciardo will go to Ferrari now he's at Renault. If he went to Ferrari he'd be #2 to LeCerc. Also while Renault have had a horrible year he's the undisputed #1 and the issues are being worked on. He has always been the single best guy at being the last of the late brakers for passing. He can't do that with the current car so the issues are obvious, I think they're working on the issues now they can see the shortcomings.
Alright Singapore!!!!
In the past, it was not my favorite race. This year, I hope we have the top three teams merging. I read the article on the F1 site and was happy they think the same.
So I hope for the top 6 cars to be close in the race.
I think the biggest difference is going to be how Mercedes has changed their suspension to improve speed in low to medium corners. I predict a Mercedes win again, with Red Bull in 2nd
Bold prediction: Max takes out LeClerc and Hammy, Vettel solo stuffs it somewhere, Bottas wins with Riccardio 2nd and Hulkenberg 3rd with the other RB 4th.
It's the normal heat and humidity for the race weekend. At least the air quality is a lot better today than yesterday. When I landed yesterday, it was a mess here with the smoke in the air. Winds kicked up last night and it's a lot better. Hope it lasts. I took the chance to walk the circuit last night.
Singapore as usual will come down to who has a smart race. Someone will make a mess at some point and take out a couple cars.
Cars are on track this time tomorrow.
I heard Haas isn't changing drivers for 2020.
That seems to me to be a serious wtf?
wvumtnbkr said:I heard Haas isn't changing drivers for 2020.
That seems to me to be a serious wtf?
Looks to be factual- https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.haas-confirms-grosjean-and-magnussen-for-2020.27XawMbSgrB2JLs2Z2Z6qP.html Even USAToday has it on their site.
Curious. Given the way they treated each other this season, it makes no sense.
In reply to alfadriver :
I don't think HAAS can afford any other driver. They know they have the best of those that have no other choice. And Grosjean is key to their development. Magnessen is the most they can pay for.
In reply to bmw88rider :
Ugh I don't miss the pollution over there.
Just remembered the polluted snowfall during one of my trips to Suzhou.
Hopefully they have some good air over the weekend. You probably got there before the upwind factories were paid to close.
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