FORMULA ONE - 2020

What if Vettel does actually boot Perez from Force Tracing Paper and we could get Perez & Hulk driving for Haas?

In reply to wae :

Do you think that solves the powertrain issue?

In reply to trigun7469 :

No, but putting a better lump in the back doesn't get them better drivers, either.  When everything's broken,you gotta start somewhere.  The Ferrari engine contract is long-term and Steiner isn't going anywhere, so what's left?

trigun7469 said:

In reply to wae :

Do you think that solves the powertrain issue?

Haas could go a long way by getting their engines from Honda or Renault.  And it would also help the "Haas model" by diversifying their sources.

But I know Haas rents Ferrari's wind tunnel.

Ferrari is in big trouble.  The power they found is now an illegal method, whereas the power Mercedes has found apparently is quite legal.  All of the best develoment ideas from Ferrari are illegal- oil burning, fuel storage in lines, etc.  Honda and Renualt have done better than that.

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

trigun7469 said:

In reply to wae :

Do you think that solves the powertrain issue?

Haas could go a long way by getting their engines from Honda or Renault.  And it would also help the "Haas model" by diversifying their sources.

But I know Haas rents Ferrari's wind tunnel.

Ferrari is in big trouble.  The power they found is now an illegal method, whereas the power Mercedes has found apparently is quite legal.  All of the best develoment ideas from Ferrari are illegal- oil burning, fuel storage in lines, etc.  Honda and Renualt have done better than that.

The Haas issues go way deeper than the PU.  After all, they were awful last year even with a better engine. 

I would say that modern, post-Todt Ferrari is OK at cheating and terrible at everything else, particularly considering the budget they have.  Of course, they're playing a different sport than Mercedes are.  They just need to sit back and collect their fixed payments and continue to sell beautiful road cars/valet candy.

In reply to Dave M (Forum Supporter) :

I agree, and given how bad the Ferrari chassis is- given how much is shared with Haas- suspension and wind tunnel- how much is Haas' problems traced directly to Ferrari?  Going away from Ferrari may be a step in the right direction right now.  Especially if they are only in it for the paycheck.

Remember, the basic aero concept is defined partially by the suspension design, and that's fixed to the Ferrari design because that's where they buy the parts from.  If Ferrari makes a key mistake, Haas gets it, too.

Looks like Vettel may be a pay driver next year, he just purchased this so hopefully we see him at the back of the grid making glorious noises throwing up clouds of sparks.

Vettel buys Mansell-Williams

In reply to adam525i (Forum Supporter) :

Vettel is a history buff, I bet if he retires he will do parade laps in old cars.

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

I just don't know where else they would go with 2022 coming up.  Mercedes?  Sure, you are likely to have the best 2022 chassis parts, and the best engine should carry over, although Andy Cowell is out. But Mercedes already has one full-on little brother team, and is going to be powering McLaren and Williams as well, right? 

Renault? LOL no, they are barely better than Haas as a works team.

Red Bull/Honda?  I don't think they want a second little brother team.

If you don't want to be a full-on constructor, your options might become very limited!

Edit: I forgot, they are getting rid of the MGU-H, which should help Ferrari as it is (1) the most complicated thing in the engine and (2) has no history or future in road car applications.

Edit edit: nope, looks like the MGU-H is not the most complicated thing, its an efficiency booster/alternator for the turbo?  These engines are bonkers!

In reply to Dave M (Forum Supporter) :

You think that Renault is bad?!? They just got 4/5 and the fastest lap in the last race!

In reply to Dave M (Forum Supporter) :

WRT the power unit, Renault and Honda would probably very much appreciate another car with their label on it.  Right now, both are superior to Ferrari, and seeing Ferrari's track record, I honestly don't see them catching up anytime soon.

For the chassis parts, maybe Red Bull, but I don't see why Mercedes would not sell them parts like they do for RP.  And seeing what changes are coming in 2022, the low rake chassis would suggest to go buy the parts from Mercedes, since they are starting with that already- so it will match well with the ground effects.

Diversifying all of the sources would make it more appealing to others who want to get in, but can't get a single deal.  

But I don't see them changing anytime soon.

In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :

They got 11th and 13th in Spain...No higher than 8th in Austria(s) and Hungary.  They can't handle tracks with downforce requirements. The most recent incarnation of the team's best finish was 4th, once, in 2018; they got 5th last year and are currently 6th.

Considering they have the resources of a gigantic car company on par with Benz and FCA, they are bad.

Claire Williams to step down as deputy team principal after this weekend's race, apparently:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-family-steps-down-from-f1-team

In reply to wae :

I just read that.  I figured she would leave, but didn't think so soon. 

wae said:

Claire Williams to step down as deputy team principal after this weekend's race, apparently:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-family-steps-down-from-f1-team

 

So apparently Dorilton is just a front for one guy - does anyone know who it is?  It would be quite funny if it was Toto Wolf or someone like that.

Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:

wae said:

Claire Williams to step down as deputy team principal after this weekend's race, apparently:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-family-steps-down-from-f1-team

 

So apparently Dorilton is just a front for one guy - does anyone know who it is?  It would be quite funny if it was Toto Wolf or someone like that.

https://massinvestordatabase.com/publicfirm.php?name=Dorilton+Capital 

Streetwiseguy said:

In reply to wae :

I just read that.  I figured she would leave, but didn't think so soon. 

I think it's crediting her how bad the situation is at Williams. I watched a couple of Williams documentaries and the Netflix F1. Nothing has really shown her in a good view, even during the success of the Bottas and Massa era. Other then the driver lineups everything has been a complete disaster. I am hoping that the new group can get a new manufacturer in the mix, but post Covid era might be less likely.

wae said:

Claire Williams to step down as deputy team principal after this weekend's race, apparently:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-family-steps-down-from-f1-team

 

I'll bet you a great steak from Cattleman's, this is the beginning of the end for Williams. And that makes me super sad. 

L5wolvesf said:

Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:

wae said:

Claire Williams to step down as deputy team principal after this weekend's race, apparently:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-family-steps-down-from-f1-team

 

So apparently Dorilton is just a front for one guy - does anyone know who it is?  It would be quite funny if it was Toto Wolf or someone like that.

https://massinvestordatabase.com/publicfirm.php?name=Dorilton+Capital 

That's not who they are. Dorilton is the family investing office for a single family/person. Who they are, we will find out eventually!

z31maniac said:

wae said:

Claire Williams to step down as deputy team principal after this weekend's race, apparently:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-family-steps-down-from-f1-team

 

I'll bet you a great steak from Cattleman's, this is the beginning of the end for Williams. And that makes me super sad. 

I kind of think the beginning of the end was when they made a couple seasons out of trundling around in 19th and 20th....And I'm not saying it's Claire's fault - I don't know the first thing about how to run a racing team.  But in any sport, when the team is constantly losing, you fire the coach.

Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:

L5wolvesf said:

Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:

wae said:

Claire Williams to step down as deputy team principal after this weekend's race, apparently:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-family-steps-down-from-f1-team

 

So apparently Dorilton is just a front for one guy - does anyone know who it is?  It would be quite funny if it was Toto Wolf or someone like that.

https://massinvestordatabase.com/publicfirm.php?name=Dorilton+Capital 

That's not who they are. Dorilton is the family investing office for a single family/person. Who they are, we will find out eventually!

Apparently, there was some rumor that it was Bernie because somehow the initials BCE were attached to something pertaining to the buyout or the fund.

Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:

L5wolvesf said:

Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:

wae said:

Claire Williams to step down as deputy team principal after this weekend's race, apparently:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-family-steps-down-from-f1-team

 

So apparently Dorilton is just a front for one guy - does anyone know who it is?  It would be quite funny if it was Toto Wolf or someone like that.

https://massinvestordatabase.com/publicfirm.php?name=Dorilton+Capital 

That's not who they are. Dorilton is the family investing office for a single family/person. Who they are, we will find out eventually!

If you go to the bottom of the linked (link not showing up as a link for unknown reason) page it refers to Dorlinton Capital's purchase of Williams. It is also described "Dorilton Capital is a family equity investment firm"

In reply to wae :

No! That would be amazing/awful/typical. 

I am thinking it has to be someone F1-connected, because the investment firm has no history of any kind of making this sort of investment and the Williams family was all on-board with the sale, which I don't think they'd be if it was to a random vulture fund that would strip the company for parts.

wae said:

z31maniac said:

wae said:

Claire Williams to step down as deputy team principal after this weekend's race, apparently:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-family-steps-down-from-f1-team

 

I'll bet you a great steak from Cattleman's, this is the beginning of the end for Williams. And that makes me super sad. 

I kind of think the beginning of the end was when they made a couple seasons out of trundling around in 19th and 20th....And I'm not saying it's Claire's fault - I don't know the first thing about how to run a racing team.  But in any sport, when the team is constantly losing, you fire the coach.

You aren't wrong. Just sucks to see such a great independent team, well fail. Ugh. 

Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to wae :

No! That would be amazing/awful/typical. 

I am thinking it has to be someone F1-connected, because the investment firm has no history of any kind of making this sort of investment and the Williams family was all on-board with the sale, which I don't think they'd be if it was to a random vulture fund that would strip the company for parts.

I really hope you're right!