Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:
captainawesome said:
Does anyone wonder if Stroll handed Perez a HUGE paycheck to kick rocks and try to find a seat elsewhere? I mean he probably figured they were going to find a loophole to put Vettel in his spot anyway.
That's the speculation I'm seeing.
What I'm wondering is how much better 2021 Vettel will be than Checo? It doesn't seem like Vettel is the same guy since he left Red Bull.
Vettel hasn't been the same since the hybrids showed up. Ricciardo kicked his ass in 2014 in the same car. Either he couldn't adapt to the greater complexity or he was dependent on something about that previous generation Red Bull.
I'm looking forward to seeing Lewis lap Vettel :)
How left field would be Checo to Redbull, Albon and Gasley at Alpha Tauri and Kyvat out. I think a consistent guy like Checo would put Red Bull in the hunt for a manufacturer championship.
captainawesome said:
In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :
I'm on the fence about that, but my best guess is that he will flounder. If his confidence has been in the toilet this whole time, I don't think he's going to be any happier with a lower funded program.
I do not believe it will be lower funded. There is a cost cap next year that I believe Lawrence stroll will bump up against.
Is the cost cap for 2021 or 2022? I believe Ferrari's comeback plan is to spend All The Money on the 2022 car during 2021 so they're in good shape before the design freeze.
And this can't be good. McLaren has listed their awesome headquarters for sale and is letting 25% of their workforce go.
https://www.cityam.com/mclaren-puts-iconic-woking-hq-up-for-sale-for-200m/
I thought cost cap rolled into 2022 because there was already money and development in place with 2020 cars crossing into 2021.
Crazy about McLaren though. Hope they can get things sorted and stay healthy on grid.
Keith Tanner said:
Is the cost cap for 2021 or 2022? I believe Ferrari's comeback plan is to spend All The Money on the 2022 car during 2021 so they're in good shape before the design freeze.
And this can't be good. McLaren has listed their awesome headquarters for sale and is letting 25% of their workforce go.
https://www.cityam.com/mclaren-puts-iconic-woking-hq-up-for-sale-for-200m/
I heard the McLaren deal was a purchase and lease back. Would be a good way to come up with $200mil to get through this rough year.
-Rob
In reply to Keith Tanner :
2021-https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.the-2021-f1-cost-cap-explained-what-has-changed-and-why.5O1Te8udKLmkUl4PyVZtUJ.html
$145M for '21
$140 for '22
$135 for '23 and beyond.
There are some detail changes thanks to the carry over car for next year/delay of the new car due to the pandemic. These targets are lower than the original plan, as the changes due to the pandemic started to become clear. And I'm sure that the adjustments kept Haas in the field, as well as made it a lot easier to sell Williams.
rob_lewis said:
Keith Tanner said:
Is the cost cap for 2021 or 2022? I believe Ferrari's comeback plan is to spend All The Money on the 2022 car during 2021 so they're in good shape before the design freeze.
And this can't be good. McLaren has listed their awesome headquarters for sale and is letting 25% of their workforce go.
https://www.cityam.com/mclaren-puts-iconic-woking-hq-up-for-sale-for-200m/
I heard the McLaren deal was a purchase and lease back. Would be a good way to come up with $200mil to get through this rough year.
-Rob
Yup, got confirmation from my friend at McLaren. It's basically a way to release some capital. Luckily, he's still in.
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to Keith Tanner :
2021-https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.the-2021-f1-cost-cap-explained-what-has-changed-and-why.5O1Te8udKLmkUl4PyVZtUJ.html
$145M for '21
$140 for '22
$135 for '23 and beyond.
There are some detail changes thanks to the carry over car for next year/delay of the new car due to the pandemic. These targets are lower than the original plan, as the changes due to the pandemic started to become clear. And I'm sure that the adjustments kept Haas in the field, as well as made it a lot easier to sell Williams.
So Ferrari is spending All The Money this year, not next year :) Those cars are going to be looking pretty worn out by the end of 2021. Will they even bother with mid-year updates?
Also, since some teams get a bonus simply for painting their cars red - this cost cap is actually penalizing the smaller teams more in some ways. Ferrari gets more than half the spending cap back just for being Ferrari. So it'll cost them $72M to run in 2021 even if they completely collapse, while it will cost someone like Alfa Romeo twice that much.
Here are the payouts from last year, BTW. Ferrari got paid more to show up than Mercedes got paid to win the championship. Interestingly, Red Bull, Mercedes and Williams also get "thanks for coming out" money. Based on those numbers, three teams don't even need sponsors for 2021 (yes, I know, there are other costs that aren't in the cap).
https://www.racefans.net/2019/03/03/formula-1-teams-prize-money-payments-for-2019-revealed/
Keith Tanner said:
Also, since some teams get a bonus simply for painting their cars red - this cost cap is actually penalizing the smaller teams more in some ways. Ferrari gets more than half the spending cap back just for being Ferrari. So it'll cost them $72M to run in 2021 even if they completely collapse, while it will cost someone like Alfa Romeo twice that much.
Don't worry, they'll spend a few tens of millions on accountants and lawyers to find creative ways to spend the remaining $400M of the current budget on the car while being able to claim it's actually being spent on something else. I'm really looking forward to forensic accounting protests...
Keith Tanner said:
Yup, got confirmation from my friend at McLaren. It's basically a way to release some capital. Luckily, he's still in.
Oddball question. Is your friend an engineer for McLaren and does he happen to live in central Texas?
(I ask because my wife met someone at HomeDepot who said he was a McLaren engineer and she forgot to ask his name. My kid wants to be an F1 engineer and I thought it would be cool if he could talk to a local guy)
You don't have to answer, just one of those "small world" things.
-Rob
Currently Chief Engineer for Hybrid and Electric Drives at McLaren. Based in Woking. He used to work for Mercedes F1 in powertrain, though. I could probably put you in touch, but it wouldn't be in person.
Curious practices. Lap one may be very messy with such little runoff room. May lose a bunch of cars.
Bottas is showing his skills. But based on onboards he was taking a lot more curb it seemed. Ok for qualifying but probably not sustainable during the race for tyre life.
RedBull are in for the win. I think MB will suffer too much with tyre life and fall back behind RB. I really hope Albon can keep up with Max.
I love "Casanova" and the "Arrabiata" corners.
Looks like a track that will be great fun to drive, might be a bitch to pass anywhere but the front straight, and could eat tires.
Very pretty place.
That track looks like a riot when you've got horsepower.
What tracks ARE easy to pass on for an F1 car?
No problem with enforcing track limits this weekend, I'd say.
I did like Russell and Kvyat I think running wide and not lifting through the gravel.
wae
UltraDork
9/12/20 3:02 p.m.
Not related to this weekend's GP, but I read that part of the new Concorde Agreement is that any new team that wants to join the sport has to write a check for $20,000,000 to each of the existing teams. Before they've spent dollar number one on building a car. This says to me that they weren't really expecting any new teams to come on board but they were expecting one or more teams to leave.
Streetwiseguy said:
No problem with enforcing track limits this weekend, I'd say.
Those are proper track limits.
Painted lines are not track limits.
Track limits enforce themselves - with prejudice!
wae said:
Not related to this weekend's GP, but I read that part of the new Concorde Agreement is that any new team that wants to join the sport has to write a check for $20,000,000 to each of the existing teams. Before they've spent dollar number one on building a car. This says to me that they weren't really expecting any new teams to come on board but they were expecting one or more teams to leave.
This could be a move to put more value on current teams IE if a team wants to get out of F1, they are suddenly looking more desirable because starting a new team is prohibitively expensive. Mugello is an interesting and beautiful track. I like how it punishes mistakes and really tests the drivers. I hope tomorrow is interesting.
Pretty good qualifying.
Surprised at how far back vettel is compared to leclerc.
Gasly ran out of electrons before the lap was over in q2. Sad. I wanted to see him put it up near 5th or 6th.
I'm hoping bottas takes it to Lewis on the start.
Could be a boring race. The f2 race today was pretty good, but not great. Usually when f2 races are kinda meh, the f1 race is BORING.
I have to say that Max is starting to convince me with his speed. He's really dragging that Red Bull up the grid. Vettel, well...
Keith Tanner said:
I have to say that Max is starting to convince me with his speed. He's really dragging that Red Bull up the grid. Vettel, well...
I have a theory that Ferrari has been intentionally hindering Vettel going back to last year. Ferrari started cheating the fuel flow system and as a result would use more fuel than would be expected. The teams are required to declare the amount of fuel in the cars so it would make sense that if you're cheating, you might fudge that number because you're using more than you're supposed to. The FIA randomly checked the fuel levels in LeClercs and Vettels cars and only LeClerc had 5kg more fuel than he was supposed to. Why would that be? Is Seb so much better at saving fuel that he didn't need the extra?
In reply to loosecannon :
If that is remotely true, then nobody should be a fan of Ferrari. I don't like them, and am not a fan of Seb, but to sabotage a 4 time WC for ANY reason is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. BUT- seeing how they are treating Seb this season, it would not surprise me. Now I kind of want him to do well as AML next year. At least better than Ferrari. Sorry Carlos, I like you alot, and will root for you as soon as you part ways with the donkey team.
