FORMULA ONE - 2020

I say berkeley them. Let them quit. 

I get really tired of the constant whining from RBR now that they aren't the dominant team and the constant threats. 

So fine, take your ball and go home.

It is also quite possible that they have decided that only they have the ability to build a top-flight powerplant and they want control over this critical component. It would seem this is a logical step for a team that wants to be at the top of the podium. If the engine doesn't perform, though, they'll need a scapegoat (RB loves scapegoats) and they're setting that up to be the regulations.

And if they don't get the regulation freeze they want and they don't want to deal with Ferrari or eat crow with Renault, then they leave and the scapegoat is the FIA. It will never be RB's fault.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Preciesly why I wouldn't mind if I never saw another interview with Horner's little smirking face. 

Some of my disdain for RBR could be how they treated my favorite driver there until he retired, Webber. 

I don't have a lot of love for them either. It's a toxic environment. I think Max would actually benefit quite a bit from having a different mentor.

I'm not surprised they haven't got an engine lined up yet.  Remember when they said they were leaving Renault, they expected to walk straight into a Merc or Ferrari deal and were surprised when both said NO, after they'd spent the last couple of years publicly slagging of Renault and blaming them for all their issues.

Teams are still bitching about the budget cap.  A, not small part of me, wants to see both sugar bomb drink teams leave.  I think F1 needs to virtually collapse so the teams can be cut out of the rule making process and start again.  Having the teams involved in the rules sounds like a great idea, but they've proven they all act in their own self interest, not the long term interest of the sport.

I'm not really entertained by their whining either, but taking four cars off the grid plus the loss of whatever they pay for the Austrian Grand Prix every year seems like it might be problematic.  They're pumping a bunch of money into the series and it might be hard to replace.

On the other hand, Adrian might be right in that a little creative destruction could be good for the sport.

I don't know if they'd take four cars off the grid. Given the recent rule that basically prohibits the creation of new teams (seriously, who thought that was a good idea), it's likely that someone would buy up the teams and rebrand them. After all, Red Bull is really Jaguar which is really Stewart. AlphaTauri is Minardi. Teams very rarely disappear completely and the way the rules are right now, an existing entry is worth $200 million more than a new one.

Keith Tanner said:

Given the recent rule that basically prohibits the creation of new teams (seriously, who thought that was a good idea), 

The teams did.  They want to protect their investment and create more incentive for newcomers to buy existing teams rather than starting one from scratch.

Oh, I know. They're protecting the country club from invaders by changing the rules after they get in. Funny how they didn't complain about the prize pool getting bigger instead of smaller when Caterham and Marussia went down.

Red Bull is just playing the Ferrari "We gonna take our ball and go home!" routine.  They have a boatload if money tied up in this game.

It's a ballsy move with Ferrari on the other side.

Keith Tanner said:

Oh, I know. They're protecting the country club from invaders by changing the rules after they get in. Funny how they didn't complain about the prize pool getting bigger instead of smaller when Caterham and Marussia went down.

Well, to be fair, aside from Haas (2016) the newest team in F1 is Red Bull who started in 1997 as Stewart.  The large fee required to start a new team goes back quite a long way as well, since the mid 90s at least I think, so most of the current owners faced this same choice when they bought their current team.  In the early 90s they actually had more teams than the venues could accomodate, leading to "pre-qualifying" where if you weren't fast enough on Friday then you packed up and went home then.

The "you must pay us each $20 million to join the country club" does appear to be new.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/new-f1-squads-must-now-pay-existing-teams-200m-to-enter/ 

Keith Tanner said:

The "you must pay us each $20 million to join the country club" does appear to be new.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/new-f1-squads-must-now-pay-existing-teams-200m-to-enter/ 

I believe a similar rule was in place in the 90s and early 2000s, but was relaxed a few years ago when they wanted new teams.  Toyota was the only genuinely new team in that time frame and IIRC they paid quite a chunk of change to do it.

This is one reason why I generally preferred F5000 to F1, even though it was far more "amateur".  As Mark Donohue (or was it Roger Penske?) said (paraphrased), "90% of the performance for 10% of the cost..."

It's not as simple as just bolting a Renault into the back of the RBR, the integration is tricky and the Renault engine architecture might not suit the Red Bull at all. Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault have an advantage over customer teams because, as an example, if the engine runs too hot, the engine and aero guys can work out best arrangement for cooling while retaining performance. But if a customer team says the engine runs too hot, the engine manufacturer can tell the customer to just cut bigger holes in the bodywork. Do we need new engines? Can't we just allow teams with less points to have more tokens? Or allow them more engines per season until performance is equalized?

In reply to loosecannon :

Brawn GP is fully aware of that.  

Even after that flippant remark, I don't feel sorry for RBR what so ever that they have this problem.  They are the ones who threw Renault under the bus for many years, it's their personal fault that it's not just fitment but personalities that Renault is not a prime choice.  It's very much a reason why Mercedes won't add production volume to deal with them (even though they very much could- it's just more people making more engines- Red Bull would pay for it).

Heck, I would not be surprised that because of internal Honda-Red Bull politics was part of the reason Honda does not see a future.  If Red Bull can contract some engineering company to do the Honda motor, Honda could do the exact same thing and scale back their specific input- putting the burden on a Cosworth or Mugen.  They didn't.

BOTH seats open at Haas.

Expected one, but not both.

I was surprised they dropped both drivers at Haas. Do you think they have an experienced driver in mind to replace one of them or are they going with two rookies next year? Maybe Perez should go there?

One site I saw last night said the rumor was that one seat was going to Mick.

ALso heard the Mick rumor.  Also heard they would be interested in a bargain priced Nico.  I have higher hopes for Nico but would be a nice ticket for them.  Hoping for real change as they have really struggled.

Yea, the F1 pundits suggested one experienced driver and one Jr Ferrari driver- as they have an abundance.

So I read one of the silly season rumors for Haas is Mick Schumacher and Callum llott, That would be surprising both are rookies and Guntheir's has a hard line on veterans. I was really hoping to see a veteran with mick, honestly I thought Alfa was the better of the teams. The silly season rumor that Pietro is looking back at indycar and is being ignored by haas is a shame.

In reply to trigun7469 :

Grosjean just said they were getting dropped for pay drivers, so they'll look for Checo + Dimitri, or Mick + Dimitri if Daddy Ferarri insists, or, if Checo decides he'd rather retire than drive a Haas, another pay driver + Dimitri/Mick.

Hulk would be cool but he isn't a pay driver....

Everybody would love to have a Schumi in the cockpit, I'd be amazed if Hass didn't go for that. And a pay driver can simply mean he brings his own sponsorship and the team gets some of it, so if Hulk can do the right tapdance he might be able to pull it off.

I'm very interested in what the FIA is going to to do Racing Point for their public and transparent disregard of the COVID safety regulations. The FIA is trying to play up how responsible they're being and the Strolls are just pissing on it. For those who haven't seen the news - Lance was positive in Germany, but didn't reaaaalllly get tested until he got home to Switzerland which conveniently has different quarantine rules than Germany, and daddy Lawrence is also positive but of course that's not important because he's mostly hanging around at Aston.