FORMULA ONE - 2020

Streetwiseguy said:

adam525i (Forum Supporter) said:

I wonder what we would end up with if the DRS automatically closed as the front tires of the overtaking car went in front of the rears of the car being passed? Is that too late and we still end up with the pass being done before they are on the brakes or would we see the battle go into the braking zone and the following corners? Hopefully the 2022 car makes it all irrelevant. 

I would agree with that, if anybody who ever got passed by a car with DRS open had then turned around and re-passed the car on the next lap.  I agree that yesterdays zone was a bit easy, but in general it works as designed.

I was wondering if it would come to that, a pair of cars swapping position on every lap, but every passing car managed to open up a gap.

Streetwiseguy said:

I recently watched a couple of races from the McLaren days, and was reminded of why he generally gives Max a bit of a break.  He was a festival of carbon death for a few years, himself.  Grew out of it eventually.

Only when Massa was involved.  Their two cars were attracted to each other for some reason.

Young fast drivers usually crash quite a lot.  Supposedly it's easier for a fast driver to learn to crash less than for a slow, conservative driver to learn to be faster.

Based on personal experience I can say that the second of those is hard to do! :)

Keith Tanner said:

Streetwiseguy said:

adam525i (Forum Supporter) said:

I wonder what we would end up with if the DRS automatically closed as the front tires of the overtaking car went in front of the rears of the car being passed? Is that too late and we still end up with the pass being done before they are on the brakes or would we see the battle go into the braking zone and the following corners? Hopefully the 2022 car makes it all irrelevant. 

I would agree with that, if anybody who ever got passed by a car with DRS open had then turned around and re-passed the car on the next lap.  I agree that yesterdays zone was a bit easy, but in general it works as designed.

I was wondering if it would come to that, a pair of cars swapping position on every lap, but every passing car managed to open up a gap.

Since DRS is to allow faster cars to be, well, faster, it works.  It's still not super easy- as you need to be close enough, and many tracks have corners before the zone to not let them be that close.  I honestly expected this track to be that way with a super high speed corner going onto the straight.

Picture it the other way, a little, what if this was just like Monaco, and everyone ended up piling up behind Sainz who was slowing down?

Considering that there are more tracks where it's almost impossible ot pass, I'm totally fine with the occasional track where the faster cars are faster.

On a different note- everyone expects that 2021 will be an exact repeat of 2020.  

It's very much not- the new floor rules are changing the aero a lot.  Given the layouts of the car, I expect Mercedes to walk away with it, as I think their low rake design is more robust to major changes- sealing the floor will be easier.  I also think Racing Point will move up, for similar reasons.

Red Bull has had such a tough time with this years car, I think they will lose it again next spring.  Their big challenge seems to be getting the floor to seal in a robust manner- and it takes half a season for them to figure it out.  It's going to be a lot harder next season.

Ferrari will get off to a tough start, again.  BUT- I don't see it as tough as this year.  They may be down on power, but I think that very much masked some serious aero flaws.  Seeing their progress with at least Charles- I think they are getting far better understanding.

Hard to tell who is really getting it or not in the mid field.  Some look like they are, some seem to be faking that.  Every time Renault looks like they have figured it out, they have long runs where it kind of falls apart.

The reason I bring this up was the blind tire test that Pirelli ran during FP2.  For next season's tires.  And the floor rule change is 100% due to the unexpected downforce last and especially this season.  Killing the tires.

My comment about DRS was related to how it worked at this circuit specifically. Given that it seemed particularly strong, I figured we'd see cars get into a swapping festival. But that didn't happen, even with two that were fairly evenly matched such as the two Mercs. I just wish the directors would stop doing replays of DRS passes, they're not very exciting to watch most of the time.

I expect Mercedes will dominate 2021 simply because they will retain their very strong driver lineup and they're actually developing the 2021 car. Ferrari has basically said they're not going to bother. Red Bull may get distracted by the engine question. And if the tires become stronger, that's another point for Mercedes because they seem to put more energy into them than anyone else and will thus benefit more than most from an upgrade.

Keith Tanner said:

My comment about DRS was related to how it worked at this circuit specifically. Given that it seemed particularly strong, I figured we'd see cars get into a swapping festival. But that didn't happen, even with two that were fairly evenly matched such as the two Mercs. I just wish the directors would stop doing replays of DRS passes, they're not very exciting to watch most of the time.

The director for the world feed seemed to be a lot worse in this race than the norm, lots of things were happening off-camera while they showed boring stuff.  They also missed important angles on the collisions -- we saw every shot of the Stroll/Verstappen collision except the one that mattered -- the front view of the car in the back.

It used to be that world feed directors were supplied by the track, and thus you'd often see lots of boring footage of the local favorite backmarker.  FOM changed that a few years ago to use a consistent set of directors and it's generally been pretty good, but this race was unusual.

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

The only interesting storyline I can make up is if at Ferrari Carlos emerges as a faster driver. Obviously I have no clue what clauses lie within the contract, but Carlos is no slouch, doesn't seem to lay down. It was a good battle while it latest between him and Max at Alpha.

Wildcard would be Vettel at Racing Point, how much is left in the tank, does he really want to race or be a sustainable farmer.

The fact that Ferrari had to go on the record and clarify that Leclerc and Vettel are on the same car has got to sting. Sebastien definitely needs to feel comfortable in a car to do well. He wasn't comfortable in the hybrid Red Bull, he's not comfortable in the current Ferrari. Will Aston be able to give him a car that works for him?

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

I agree with you, I recall the teams and drivers were getting questions about everything staying the same in 2021. Thus Carlos and Ricciardo should be worried that they are choosing the wrong teams. The drivers and teams kept having to tell the media that 2021 technical changes aren't trivial and can upset the order of the teams.

I really hope that Aston Martin, Renault and Mclaren can get closer to MB. I don't mind RB falling to 5th or lower and staying there a few more years. Williams giving some go in the mid pack would be nice too.

Vettel will do better at Racing Point as I think he knows it will be possible to get some wins. RP have a new factory coming and stable funding for a few years. He can sit back and not try to build the team which I never thought he would succeed at doing with Ferrari. The Team is already building itself to a championship winning outfit.

Sainz at Ferrari will be a fun. I think the car has come along well as Leclerc has shown through solid drives, not all lucky SC affected results. 

I think the worst driver changes for me would be for Russell to lose his ride just purely due to Williams needing money. That would suck.

HAAS will pick up any straggling good drivers. Redbull is the key to the rest of the dominoes falling. 

Gasly re signed with Alpha Tauri for 2021! I feel like that's a pretty solid move for him. Probably a better fit than being number 2 to Max in the second RB (he's been beating the 2nd RB anyways, lol) and gives him more opportunities for 2022 assuming he can go outside of RB teams. 

Saron81 said:

Gasly resigned with Alpha Tauri for 2021! I feel like that's a pretty solid move for him. Probably a better fit than being number 2 to Max in the second RB (he's been beating the 2nd RB anyways, lol) and gives him more opportunities for 2022 assuming he can go outside of RB teams. 

This I'm glad to hear. There's just something that Gasly and this team have together that I don't think could ever exist on the "premier" Red Bull team. It sure seemed like as soon as he was off Red Bull and back to then Toro Rosso his drive and finishes improved.

Resign and re-sign are different words. Had me confused for a second and thought he was leaving AT!

In reply to captainawesome :

Fixed. ;) 

Keith Tanner said:

My comment about DRS was related to how it worked at this circuit specifically. Given that it seemed particularly strong, I figured we'd see cars get into a swapping festival. But that didn't happen, even with two that were fairly evenly matched such as the two Mercs. I just wish the directors would stop doing replays of DRS passes, they're not very exciting to watch most of the time.

I expect Mercedes will dominate 2021 simply because they will retain their very strong driver lineup and they're actually developing the 2021 car. Ferrari has basically said they're not going to bother. Red Bull may get distracted by the engine question. And if the tires become stronger, that's another point for Mercedes because they seem to put more energy into them than anyone else and will thus benefit more than most from an upgrade.

As far as putting more energy into the tires, is that because of the DAS they have this year?  If so, I thought that was not going to continue in the 2021 car.  

Interesting video from The Race about the problem that Haas is having.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC5BjKGl9vw&ab_channel=THERACE

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

DAS is going away with the new chassis rules, which will now happen in 2022.

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

Thanks!  I started questioning myself when I was writing that.

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

DAS is going away with the new chassis rules, which will now happen in 2022.

I have read the opposite. While the new major overhaul of the cars was pushed to 2022, the update to the technical rules that remove DAS as an acceptable steering control option will still take affect for 2021. So MB knows it will have to remove DAS for next year. So if we have crazy cold and wet races next year they will be at the same level as everyone else. 

Advan046 said:

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

DAS is going away with the new chassis rules, which will now happen in 2022.

I have read the opposite. While the new major overhaul of the cars was pushed to 2022, the update to the technical rules that remove DAS as an acceptable steering control option will still take affect for 2021. So MB knows it will have to remove DAS for next year. So if we have crazy cold and wet races next year they will be at the same level as everyone else. 

And I read DAS as DRS- which does go in 2022.  Thanks for correcting me.

But it is interesting that MB got it banned fo the new chassis rules, and when that was pushed to 2022, the DAS ban stuck.

wvumtnbkr said:

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

Thanks!  I started questioning myself when I was writing that.

So I read DRS instead of DAS in yoru post.  One goes away next season, the other with the new chassis.  Sorry about the mixup.

I think this is because DAS isn't really linked to the chassis rules.  It's one of those "Huh, clever idea but not what we intended.  OK you can have it this year but next year it's banned" kind of things.

wvumtnbkr said:

Keith Tanner said:

My comment about DRS was related to how it worked at this circuit specifically. Given that it seemed particularly strong, I figured we'd see cars get into a swapping festival. But that didn't happen, even with two that were fairly evenly matched such as the two Mercs. I just wish the directors would stop doing replays of DRS passes, they're not very exciting to watch most of the time.

I expect Mercedes will dominate 2021 simply because they will retain their very strong driver lineup and they're actually developing the 2021 car. Ferrari has basically said they're not going to bother. Red Bull may get distracted by the engine question. And if the tires become stronger, that's another point for Mercedes because they seem to put more energy into them than anyone else and will thus benefit more than most from an upgrade.

As far as putting more energy into the tires, is that because of the DAS they have this year?  If so, I thought that was not going to continue in the 2021 car.  

I think it's because they're simply able to make more downforce. They're about a second a lap faster than any of the cars, more so if you take Verstappen out of the picture. So they're working the tires that much harder and the tires are giving up. They've always worked better on hard tires and worse on softs than any of the others on the grid.

I didn't realize DRS was going away in 2022. I'm okay with that.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Would you care to place a wager about how long it takes to come back, after they discover that their new aero rules haven't made passing any more possible?

Streetwiseguy said:

Would you care to place a wager about how long it takes to come back, after they discover that their new aero rules haven't made passing any more possible?

Yeah, I was just thinking that.