In reply to Advan046 :
While it should be certain, it's not trivial. The aero rule changes are pretty big when the cars are supposed to be static. In theory, it will benefit Mercedes and Racing Point the most as I *think* the rules will hamper the high rake cars the most (making it harder to seal the edges). But we will see.
And I come back to the point that the other teams were paying attention to the wrong team. Every single championship has been won by Mercedes- which suggests that their aero concept is at least good. It took until the last year of these rules for anyone to even bother trying their concept. And then we got a bonus year of the same rules.
As much as Mercedes has done a great job dominating, ALL of the other teams have sucked trying to keep up. And it's not just the engines.
In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :
You're exactly right. Other teams (bar Racing Point) have tried to re-invent the wheel instead of trying to perfect the wheel. Mercedes has a great engine, obviously, but their car doesn't win solely on that. Their aero concept is different than others so why not try to copy it? Maybe Adrian Newey is convinced his concept will eventually be better? I dunno, seems to me that other teams are making Mercedes job easier.
An acquaintance was working at Renault last year (she did the design on a rear upper control arm that's on the current car) and they blame their woes last year on an aerodynamic dead end. High rake was a mistake.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Jealous.....and I trust her assessment.
From a practical point, I think the rules makers are, if maybe over focused, moving on destroying the aero tools that the mighty RedBulls used preMB domination.
So sticking with the old Adrian Newey philosophy seems to be choosing to down a guaranteed failure path.
Keith Tanner said:
An acquaintance was working at Renault last year (she did the design on a rear upper control arm that's on the current car) and they blame their woes last year on an aerodynamic dead end. High rake was a mistake.
It's too bad that they figured that out too late. It would have been nice to see some of the middle teams noting that the low rake set up is more robust and easier to set up. Which would make them more competitive.
In reply to Advan046 :
I agree, mostly, with everything that's been said above. But I think we shouldn't pooh-pooh the engine nor everything else Mercedes does. They're just a step above. High rake could still be a winner if you had the other elements Mercedes does, no?
In reply to Dave M (Forum Supporter) :
It may win a race every now and then like Red Bull does, but I would not assume that it would be superior to the low rake concept that Mercedes uses. Seeing how long it takes Red Bull to figure their car out every single season very much suggests that it's really, really hard to set up. Whereas Mercedes comes out of the box fast, and improves all season.
Personally, I think it's amusing that the entire field followed Adrian Newey for this entire hyrbid era, and none of them did well, including Red Bull. Nobody bothered to follow the fastest car on the grid- everyone assumed that it was all engine. When Mercedes engines in other cars sucked just like everyone else did.
This entire era has shown that how Toto Wolfe runs a team is the way to do it. They have constantly kept up on their car, and constantly have fixed the flaws. And it's not about money, since Ferrari has more. The best engine improved, the best aero has improved, the best chassis improved, the best drivers have improved, and none of the other teams could keep up. That's credit to Mercedes and damning for the rest of the field.
I'm always amused when people give the Merc engine credit for all their success.
"Williams uses a Merc engine, too", I respond...
Advan046 said:
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Jealous.....and I trust her assessment.
She earned it. Working on a Renault F1 car and racing W series on the side? Kids, dreams can come true even if you grew up in some sleepy little Colorado town and your father is a real estate agent.
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/sabre-cook-race-car-driver-infiniti-engineering-academy-winner/
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Cool story! Did she stay on with Renault for this year? I wish I had known about jobs like that when I was younger, always loved cars, but never realized there were such cool jobs working for a race team :(
The comments about building a car around Max really resonates for me:
For Autocross I set my F500 up with a lot more rake than I do for road racing, the car is extremely edgy to drive with the extra rake. I've had two Karters and a Drifter drive the car and they all spun two or three times on their first runs. The extra rake is worth 2-3 tenths at autocross but it tends to be an all or nothing set up (read hero or zero). I've actually dialed the rake back to make it easier to drive for other people and it's more consistent for me. I can still manage to get the most out of it with a less edgy set up and the car being more consistent makes it easier to focus on where more time can be had.
So back to RB vs Merc; sure Max can get amazing performance out of the car but his teammates struggle so the team's overall performance is less than it could be in my opinion. Contrast that to Mercedes where both drivers are finishing well and at the end of the day drivers like Hamilton or Max are going to find that extra bit.......so the hyper focused one driver set-up as always seemed a dead end to me.
I recall years ago Schumacher's teammates commenting his setup had undriveable amounts of oversteer. Of course when you rally the team around you, and stamp your authority as number one, the team will do anything you want, so why not make the car undriveable for anyone else.
HoserRacing said:
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Cool story! Did she stay on with Renault for this year? I wish I had known about jobs like that when I was younger, always loved cars, but never realized there were such cool jobs working for a race team :(
She's focusing on driving this year - or that was the plan. There's a time limit on a driving career. W Series got cancelled so she'll do that next year. She's done a couple of drives but not a full campaign.
I might actually see her this afternoon, I'm heading to the track now.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
If she's got any interest in full-bodied cars, Round 3 Racing has a team with Shift Up Now running in WRL, might be some opportunities for her. Have fun at the track!
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Sounds like she has a solid career path..............a certain RB team manager was a very good driver.
So I looked at the Haas link just as a goof and wouldn't you know it they are looking for a buyer; despite meeting the requirement for strong negotiation skills, I only meet about half the qualifications...............thank God.
I can see it now "Honey I want to move us from dry and warm Vegas to the cold and damp UK and work reeeeally long hours". On the plus side she'd have the house to herself.
Tom1200 said:
So I looked at the Haas link just as a goof and wouldn't you know it they are looking for a buyer; despite meeting the requirement for strong negotiation skills, I only meet about half the qualifications...............thank God.
I can see it now "Honey I want to move us from dry and warm Vegas to the cold and damp UK and work reeeeally long hours". On the plus side she'd have the house to herself.
So would you by the sounds of it.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Exactly and since she's purty and I'm not, I'm not looking to screw it up. We should all look this good at 57........like most F1 cars she was also manufactured in the UK
In reply to Tom1200 :
The job isn't in North Carolina? Dry and warm Vegas to dry and wet Carolina.
It said Banbury, Oxfordshire. Even if it was in Carolina, purty girl like Vegas, Mongo like pretty girl, Mongo stay in Vegas.
Tom1200 said:
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Exactly and since she's purty and I'm not, I'm not looking to screw it up. We should all look this good at 57........like most F1 cars she was also manufactured in the UK
Those cheeks! How can ya not wanna chew em? Haha!
Pretty lady / cute pic!
Streetwiseguy said:
I'm always amused when people give the Merc engine credit for all their success.
"Williams uses a Merc engine, too", I respond...
Mercedes' dominance has been driven by multiple factors and the engine was a huge part of it for the first 2-3 years of the hybrid era. In 2014 Williams finished 3rd in the Constructors' Championship, ahead of every team with a Ferrari engine (including Ferrari), and every team with a Renault engine other than Red Bull.
The last couple of years it's been less significant, yes.
My predictions:
FP1-Max
FP2-Bottas
FP3-Bottas
Pole-Hamilton
Race-Hamilton
Fastest Lap-Max
First crash of weekend-Stroll
First out of race-Grosjean
In reply to loosecannon :
FP1 Ricciardo
FP2 Ricciardo
FP3 Ricciardo
Qualifying Hamilton
Race Perez due to safety car timing
2nd Albon SC
3rd Hamilton
Oh man that looks slippery, better get out there and get a time in under 3 min....and red
