In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :
I agree 100%, I don't think anyone thought when they put on the intermediates 10 laps in that they would run them through the end though. Hamilton was smart enough to conserve them though knowing that gives you more options as the race goes on. Shumacher always drove like this too, he would maintain a good pace saving tires for when it counted and then just turn it up as needed and make everyone else look foolish.
It was crazy though how different cars had the fast pace at different points during the race as the track dried and tires wore down.
What would have happened if they didn't pit stroll? At the time, he was doing fine on the used inters. I think the team saw the data from stroll and decided that they made a mistake and chose not to pit Perez.
Maybe stroll would have stayed near the front once the tires went to slicks like they did for Lewis and some others...
Seb spent the first half of the race being a cork - first for Max, then Lewis. Both of them disappeared into the distance once they got past. You could see the closing speed Lewis had on Seb if you watch the deltas. It was amazing to see Seb get back in the podium after that. If Seb hasn't been in the mix, I think Lewis would have lapped almost the complete field.
That was a hell of a drive from Lewis. He didn't need to take any risks today, especially after Bottas just fell apart. He could have just parked it in 4th with 15s before and behind. But he showed why he's the champion in crazy conditions.
I am looking forward to the replays of the last laps for 2-5th place.
That's 11 championships and a 2021 unemployed driver on the podium. Red Bull - if they're really looking at that second seat, it's a tough one.
This race might be worthy of saving and rewatching at a later date. I found myself actually cheering for Lance after he got off to such a great start but his inexperience came through when they put new tires on and he grained them badly. I would never have predicted a Lewis win, especially after the first few laps but somehow he came back, lapped his teammate (reminder: they are in the same car) and won by a huge margin-incredible! Loved seeing Seb back on the podium.
Unless the Thai sponsorship money is a gross amount, it's hard to come up with a reason that would notsee Sergio partnering Max next year. Sergio has been kinda second fiddle his whole career, not from a team standpoint, but from a midfield car idea. He's old enough to take what he can get, he is probably fast enough to play blocker for Max, and probably also knows what his place in the team would be. Red Bull has been running children for a long time now. Maybe it's time to have an old bull to say, "No, let's walk down and berkeley them all."
Yeah, none of these young bucks like Ricciardo or Webber :)
I was really hoping this race would give Danny some opportunities but that just didn't happen.
What blows me away about Lewis is his ability to process data. Him noting that he couldn't run those intermediates if it started raining but looking at the clouds and knowing what the different tires would and wouldn't do with temps was epic. In his post race when he said he was working through getting those tires to get proper grip. He was deciding if they were too cold or too hot and he figured it out and went on. Figuring that out has to be hard enough from the box but to do that while driving to the limit on a track that was that slick was out of this world.
wvumtnbkr said:
What would have happened if they didn't pit stroll? At the time, he was doing fine on the used inters. I think the team saw the data from stroll and decided that they made a mistake and chose not to pit Perez.
Maybe stroll would have stayed near the front once the tires went to slicks like they did for Lewis and some others...
Maybe- but his drop off in speed was pretty dramatic- Perez may have passed him, and then we know what Hamilton was capable of. Seeing that Perez was equal to Seb and Charles (and Carlos)- I would harbor a bet he would have been passed down to Verstappen. Which is where he came out after pitting- then he went out and ruined those tires, and got passed by Max, Alex, and Lando.
It just seemed that he burned through the tires so much that there was not much left to survive on like Perez and Hamilton did.
Other than one lap yesterday (and noting that Perez was on a burner when he was slowed by a yellow) Stroll has really not been impressive enough to let Sergio go. Good thing he knows the owner petty well.
What stroll and racing Point tried to say at the end of the race. Was that he had problems after the first pit stop when he went on to intermediate tires. It didn't register to the TV audience maybe because Perez had such a bad stop. Without the bad stop Perez would have passed Stroll a handfull of laps after exiting the pit lane.
So they pitted Stroll for a second set of intermediate tires because the first set were already losing him too much time but that didn't work.
I think Stroll will learn from his graining mistakes. Even Hamilton made a lot of tire choice errors early in his career.
RedBull appeared to not manage their drivers at all. Both Max and Alex should have been told to hold station behind Perez and wait for Perez to pass Stroll. Save their tires for a push later. Stroll was so slow on his first Inters that Perez would be either tripping over him or passing him. Then eventually the RedBulls would only have one RP to dela with. And more than likely Perez would have similar tire issues. I was thinking this strategy a lap before Max spun behind Perez. Then I figured they would be smart with Albon, but nope.
In reply to Advan046 :
I still see it that Stroll created his own problems. While it's possible to get a bad set of tires, it's pretty rare to get two in a row. He's been driving these cars for a few years now, and one of the key things Hamilton does that is REALLY clear to fans is that he manages the race while leading, to manage his tires. Lance just took off and built a massive lead, only to throw it away as he drove the tires out from under him.
If he learns from those mistakes, that would be good. But in the post race interview, he never mentioned his driving as an issue. We will see.
Keith Tanner said:
Yeah, none of these young bucks like Ricciardo or Webber :)
I was really hoping this race would give Danny some opportunities but that just didn't happen.
I know...but their youngsters since Max have not really done much with the opportunity, and they don't have anybody left to try.
Their young driver situation has worked well, with Seb, Danny Ric and Max... But now, not so much.
In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :
Just like there are races where Vettel can't switch on the tires while Leclerc finished fourth, I think Stroll had a setup and driving style that didn't work today. He will have to figure that out. And Hamilton was always fast on whatever tire but some races back at McLaren and early on at MB he did not get the right setup and or did not drive the right way to use them. I remember a few races where Rosberg kept his tires better than Lewis. But Lewis worked on it and turned it around. I don't rate Lance at the bottom nor at the top but he is still relatively new to F1 after leaving the bad years at Williams he finally has a car that it matters if he gets his driving style figured out.
So you've won your seventh world championship.....and surpassed Michael S in overall wins....would the set of intermediates you just accomplished this task be far more of a "trophy" than the trophy received on the top step.....cuz if I was and most assuredly I'm not....I'd have those skins sent to my house to be a reminder of my stellar career.........
759NRNG (Forum Partidario) said:
So you've won your seventh world championship.....and surpassed Michael S in overall wins....would the set of intermediates you just accomplished this task be far more of a "trophy" than the trophy received on the top step.....cuz if I was and most assuredly I'm not....I'd have those skins sent to my house to be a reminder of my stellar career.........
IIRC the teams have to give the tires back to Pirelli.
In reply to Advan046 :
Perez managed his car quite a bit better.
I'm not a fan of Stroll- between him getting the ride thanks to daddy owning the team and his very messy driving into other cars- I don't see him earning that ride outside of dad owning the team. And based on his history and comments, I don't see him learning anything from that lost opportunity.
There was a report out this morning saying that Racing Point claims Stroll had damage to a strake on the underside of his front wing that could have caused the graining issue. Is this the team covering up for the owner's son? Or is there some truth to it? I'm not educated on aero enough to know....
I don't really care if he "deserved" it or not - I would have love to have seen Stroll win, he did a really good job in Qualifying and the first half of the race. He is pretty consistently good in the rain/wet.
Hamilton is other-worldly in that car, he was all: "Who needs Pirelli? I'm going to DIY some slicks."
In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :
The majority of F1 drivers got there because daddy had enough loot to provide them the best equipment,trainers,coaches and contacts from a very early age.
They all jet off to their apartments in Monaco anyways so daddy owning the team isn't really THAT much a bigger deal in the grand scheme of the sport.
In reply to kevlarcorolla :
Which one of them bought a team so that his so could drive?
And the ones you speak of- either they are out fast due to no results, or they go on to win. Stroll is whining his way along. Daddy owning the team is the only reason that the superior driver Perez (who has lots of backing, too) isn't driving next season along Seb.
accordionfolder said:
I don't really care if he "deserved" it or not - I would have love to have seen Stroll win, he did a really good job in Qualifying and the first half of the race. He really is pretty consistently good in the rain/wet.
Hamilton is other-worldly in that car, he was all: "Who needs Pirelli? I'm going to DIY some slicks."
I'm sure most people would agree, and Lance *should* have done a lot better. Had he gone out, managed the race, kept the tires under him, he would have deserved the win. Instead, we got what we saw.
Iusedtobefast said:
There was a report out this morning saying that Racing Point claims Stroll had damage to a strake on the underside of his front wing that could have caused the graining issue. Is this the team covering up for the owner's son? Or is there some truth to it? I'm not educated on aero enough to know....
Yes it seems that from what I have read this is similar to the ferrari secretly adding aero foiling parts to Bottas' MB. 
The damage to Lance's front wing would be significant in destroying his race in the slick rainy conditions. It it was dry he might have been able to power through it, but in the rain I suspect it made the car very much slower.
I'm pretty sure wealth is one of the criteria for participation in Formula One. 
"To all the Lance Haters out there?
Go Berkley yourself!"
From Valtteri Stroll.......
Just joking to be clear.
On a serious note. Will Buxton did an article talking about how if you look at the numbers, Stroll is the better driver of the team. However, he is having a bit of a bad luck year with car failures and being punted off track from behind. His career started at Williams with a car that made everyone look bad at times. He still managed a podium. I have also had a hard time rating him too highly but he is no less worth or unworthy than Norris, Ocon, Leclerc or Russell. All of whom have vastly different economic backgrounds. Kind of like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Started from much different economic backgrounds but both worthy of being called good tech business people.
To say you wouldn't spend a little side money to buy an F1 team for your child would be disingenuous. This is a side distraction for Stroll and his son Lance IS a good race car driver. I would give my kid a chance to do well in F1 if it was just my after thought money at stake.
Putting the car on pole at the Turkish GP wasn't because his dad bought a team it was skill. I am not a Stroll fan but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and I just wish that his team chose to stick with Perez and not even considere Vettel. But the last two races show that they need to really shake up their on track team strategy leadership as they have made many bad calls all year.
In reply to Advan046 :
Perez had a faster final lap going but was stopped by a yellow at the end of Q3.
And while the skill may have resulted in a pole, where was it on Sunday? If the car was broken, did it do it all by itself? He was out in front by a HUGE margin. Given the development of the margins, he didn't spin, which would also indicate that he probably didn't go off track and hit something.
He drove the tires out from the car, multiple times. It will be interesting if he actually learns from that, especially watching his teammate on the podium. Personally, I don't see that happening. I'll eat my crow if things change, but I don't see it.
In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :
I agree he has to work on himself but that could be said about that silly rookie that beached his car on pit entry in 2007.....who ran into the back of Kimi at the end of the pit lane in Canada....
If Stroll sucks next year against Vettel then it will be more clear.
