Wondering if anyone can weigh in on some of the bizzare fwd cars that were released as AWD or 4wd. Such as the civic rt, tercel 4x4, etc. are these any good for rally cross? Or would they be slower than the FWD equivalent? Obviously they are trounced by a rear biased AWD car like an EGO and STD... (Misspelled on purpose...)
A FWD car can be faster than an AWD car on a tight course, especially if the FWD car is light. I am guessing the answer is going to be it depends, which isn't helping that much.
Well I know all pro AWD cars are rear biased. And I know they have a FWD rally cross class. (What happened to the old RWD class?!?!? Man, bring that back!) so there must be something to that system Worth utilizing. I don't know how many ppl run these in amateur rally. Anyone run them?
The Diamond Star triplets come to mind.
The cars you listed will likely be slower since they weren't exactly powerhouses to begin with, so the extra weight of the AWD system will likely slow them.
The last MLRC (Ontario) rally-X was won OVERALL by a lightened Ford Focus.
Pretty sure Evo 8/9 at least are fwd biased. That, in itself, doesn't have to be a problem.
Seemes like this one was pretty good:
aircooled wrote: Seemes like this one was pretty good:
Other than one of the most brilliant cheating scandals in motorsports history... Im still enamored by how bold/brilliant/deceiving toyota was with the shifting restrictor plate.
In reply to NordicSaab:
Got a link? I'm not aware of their cheating.
RossD wrote: In reply to NordicSaab: Got a link? I'm not aware of their cheating.
Good start: http://crasstalk.com/2011/03/cheatins-still-winnin-the-story-of-toyota-racings-best-cheat-ever/
Trackmouse wrote: (What happened to the old RWD class?!?!? Man, bring that back!)
What group do you rallycross with? SCCA has RWD classes...
the forester is usually pretty good at rallyx (though I know it is probably considered rear-biased AWD). I have always wondered how the 1st gen CRV would do, or the rav 4. Maybe they need to be lowered a touch so they are not too tipy, but I have always wondered...
3S-GTE from Caldina, lowered a bit. It is fast and awesome to watch.
In reply to EvanB:
At GRM, help will always be given to those who ask for it.
Awesome truck! (Maybe that just climbed into my top 10 for 'want to build')
NordicSaab wrote:RossD wrote: In reply to NordicSaab: Got a link? I'm not aware of their cheating.Good start: http://crasstalk.com/2011/03/cheatins-still-winnin-the-story-of-toyota-racings-best-cheat-ever/
Interesting article, but needs more pictures of Toyotas modifications.
NordicSaab wrote:RossD wrote: In reply to NordicSaab: Got a link? I'm not aware of their cheating.Good start: http://crasstalk.com/2011/03/cheatins-still-winnin-the-story-of-toyota-racings-best-cheat-ever/
WOW....
As noted above, the cars you listed weren't the fastest things out of the box. Using a good platform is probably better than doing crazy mods to a bad platform to make it fast in terms of cost-benefit ratio.
Let's look at it another way.
The best car to rallycross is the car you can actually afford to rallycross. Dead last is better than did not finish and did not finish is better than didn't show up.
jstand wrote: Interesting article, but needs more pictures of Toyotas modifications.
can't speak to its rally cross capability... but the All-Trac Corolla handles quite well on the street. One reason for this is the rear track is nearly 2" narrower then the front track.......
Trackmouse wrote: Wondering if anyone can weigh in on some of the bizzare fwd cars that were released as AWD or 4wd. Such as the civic rt, tercel 4x4, etc. are these any good for rally cross? Or would they be slower than the FWD equivalent? Obviously they are trounced by a rear biased AWD car like an EGO and STD... (Misspelled on purpose...)
Winningest Group A rally car had a 66% front drive bias on purpose. Lancia's theory was, the majority of the weight is over the front, so the majority of the drive should be in the front too.
rcutclif wrote: the forester is usually pretty good at rallyx (though I know it is probably considered rear-biased AWD).
It's biased neither way. The turbo automatics do have a 45/55 torque split due to the goofy cam and pawl center differential, but other than that and the STI 6 speed (which has a ~33/66 split via a planetary center diff, with computerized clutch lockup) all Subarus are evenly biased.
I have always wondered how the 1st gen CRV would do, or the rav 4. Maybe they need to be lowered a touch so they are not too tipy, but I have always wondered...
There's a guy up in Michigan who shoved an Alltrac drivetrain in a 2 door RAV4. Wheelbase shorter than a Miata and pushing close to 400hp. Makes neat noises but I wouldn't run it anywhere but Detroit region's super-smooth courses.
Having rallied 2 odd awd variants, I can chime in here. The Mazda 323 GTX, if you can find one, that runs, for long enough to do a rallyx, is a good candidate for FTD. Light and nimble. The downsides are too numerous to mention. It's that whole "runs" thing. Engine is bulletproof... Rest of the car, not so much. Wheelbearings, glass gearbox, tinfoil suspension bits, unobtanium replacement parts, etc etc etc. I'm currently trying to be competitive with a '90 mazda protege 4wd car. Almost as rare as a GTX but with some improvements, biggest being the Right and Proper wheelbearings. No babysitting needed in that department. Similar enough glass gearbox. They do have the advantage of biasing torque to the back of the car so there is that. After blowing up every other part of the drivetrain, we put a Toyota GT4 gearbox and rear diff in the car and have now found the weak spot to be in the front outer CV's. But the car picked up a bit of the Alltrac Advantage, mentioned in the above post. Rear track stayed the same, front track went out by around 2". This helps reduce the effects of the nose-heaviness inherent in a 4wd trasnverse mount setup and it's actually won Open class at a couple regionals. Unfortunately, all this is useless to you, looking for stock awd rallyx cheap fun. But it serves up a great foreshadowing for my advice, which is "stay cheap and simple and avoid 4wd and stick 2WD, specially RWD for more grins"
That's neat man. I didn't know awd protogays existed. I didn't ask this question because I was interested though. I asked because driving around the other day I saw a ton of these type cars, and wondered "why would they create them front biased???" Now I know... It's a cheap way to offer awd for snow, when your company is too cheap to build a proper awd competition.
Knurled wrote:Trackmouse wrote: Wondering if anyone can weigh in on some of the bizzare fwd cars that were released as AWD or 4wd. Such as the civic rt, tercel 4x4, etc. are these any good for rally cross? Or would they be slower than the FWD equivalent? Obviously they are trounced by a rear biased AWD car like an EGO and STD... (Misspelled on purpose...)Winningest Group A rally car had a 66% front drive bias on purpose. Lancia's theory was, the majority of the weight is over the front, so the majority of the drive should be in the front too.
The street cars even, of the Delta Integrale, was front biased until the 16V came out.
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