So which one of you complained about the lack of this car, then it was made, and you didn't buy it?
Sorry, just annoyed the "enthusiasts" get what they want and then don't buy it. IIRC between 3 years and two cars, only about 60,000 were sold.
That said, I love mine. My MXP cat-back showed up today and my Ground Control setup should be here on Friday. 
Next will be 18s with 245/255/35/18s, header, flex fuel kit and some weight loss. For me and the car.
As someone whose past cars include:
'06 350Z '10 Speed 3 '88 325i (S52, ground controls, wilwoods) '91 318is (ground controls, Wilwoods, SSRs) '90 Miata with XIDAs, Wilwoods, R888s, etc '13 Mustang GT, track pack, stupid car '15 BRZ, OFT tune
The Subbie is literally the favorite car I've ever owned.
Well, it's not exactly what I want. I love the way it drives but it's not too easy on the eyes. And I'd spring for the STi version if the berkeleyers would get off the pot and give me the grip, brakes, suspension and power I'm going to end up doing myself but with a factory warranty. I really like but don't love these things. There is some element that a cheap boxster with a hardtop has that they don't and it gives me pause.
Still, I actually think I'll buy one of these new for 2016 (leftover '15) if they don't cut it before then. Unless the 2 series or the Mustang are really that good and slot in in the mid 30s where the STi would have. I think they will be like the old Nissan RWD SX cars from the 80s someday. Cool and brilliant for the time but forgettable because "ugly".
In reply to z31maniac: Some of us need a big boy job to buy one of those, and they're not even expensive. 
I should seriously look into buying a used orange FRS in 2-4 years.
60,000 is a failure in three years? I don't think the BMW 318ti sold a third that many in it's 4 year run here in the states. Now that was a sales failure
mad_machine wrote: 60,000 is a failure in three years? I don't think the BMW 318ti sold a third that many in it's 4 year run here in the states. Now that was a sales failure
The ti was considered a massive failure. It's legacy is why we didn't get the 1 series hatch.
When they start actually leasing them out with realistic numbers then they will start to move again. Local Subi dealer does not have a manual on the lot that I am aware of ever, all pre-sold, so they are moving.
Locally you can get almost get a 335i for what the local subi dealer wants for a BRZ. Mind you one of these guys is subsidizing the lease but when it comes down to it at this price point and for what is more of a toy then transportation for people with kids.
mad_machine wrote: 60,000 is a failure in three years? I don't think the BMW 318ti sold a third that many in it's 4 year run here in the states. Now that was a sales failure
I'm going to check sales numbers, but 60,000 seems low because the Camaro and Mustang sold way more than that in one year, even though they're different cars. I think the Miata's sales are dropping some, too. What I find the most odd is that only 15 Golf Rs were sold last year.
mad_machine wrote: 60,000 is a failure in three years? I don't think the BMW 318ti sold a third that many in it's 4 year run here in the states. Now that was a sales failure
Yes. What it costs to make cars now, and not even sell 1,000 per month............not a success. It just sets me off the people that complain about this car existing, than when it does, no one buys it.
It's a phenomenal damn car.
I think most of the enthusiasts who wanted it did buy the car...so now there's not that much of a true market left for it (there's only a very finite supply of enthusiast drivers to pull from). Selling ~64k niche market sportcars in 3 years is not bad at all...just most likely a saturated market with demand pretty much met. There is still sales to be made, but not at the same volume. The only way to possibly entice more new buyers is upping the power output and tweaking the chassis even more (not tuning the FR-S suspension to be just like the BRZ for MY15 would maybe have helped some sales...but probably not much) which will come at a higher price point, and Toyota won't do that.
Joe public doesn't want a sports car that rides "terrible", is "noisy", and is "too sensitive to inputs" for $25k+ so they won't help out. Sports cars outside of the corvette and miata seem to have a short lifespan... maybe the Twins are a too compromised of a design for some reason to many (I personally don't feel that way, the FR-S is the perfect daily driver and only car at the moment for myself.)
Just as a FYI, if you ever want to upgrade to a better reverse light solution, I'm very pleased with the Diode Dynamics conversion kit that I installed this weekend which makes the LED brake lights also function as the turn signals and allows for the factory turn signal location to be used as the reverse lights. With XP80 LED bulbs installed you can actually see quite well while reversing in the dark!
I test drove the FRS about 1.5 years back and prior to the test drive I expected it would wind up in my driveway within a few months as a replacement for my 2000 Celica GT dd. I thought it would make the Celica feel old and worn out and "new car lust" would win out, but that wasn't the case. I couldn't convince myself to drop $25k (all in with taxes etc.) for a newer car because the Celica still felt like 80% of the car the FRS was, was paid for, and had lower operating costs (no payment, insurance, taxes, fuel economy, etc.). I did like it and the size, interior, etc. was very similar to the Celica (would actually be an almost perfect replacement) with the added benefit of RWD. But in the end, I didn't perceive the difference was enough to spend the $. Hope I can find a good one when the Celica finally departs from my driveway...
at the same price point you can get a EB Stang with twice the torque and is cheaper to insure. also the stage 1 cobb tune for the EB Stang makes 290hp/400ftlbs at the wheels.
Bottom line is that this is America, and though there is a hardcore sportscar community that can enjoy/appreciate a relatively low-powered and well-balanced sportscar like the BR-Z/FRS, the reality is that power sells cars here. 'Muricans don't want to get their sportscar beaten by a crossover SUV at a stoplight, and they don't want a sportscar with less power than a Honda Civic Si.
Put a turbo in the thing (even a smallish one, get the car up to 250hp), give it some real tires (not those fuel-efficiency POS's), and it would be more popular amongst Americans, in my opionion.
Frankly, I'm interested in them but like someone posted above, I would also want some additional power, which I wouldn't likely be able to add until warranty ran out. I'd rather have a turbo BRZ with a warranty, thank you very much. I drove the BRZ and it feels about as quick as my M42 e30. I know it's actually somewhat quicker, but it doesn't feel very quick to me (though I like most of its other aspects).
So consider that the take of someone who has significant interest in "this kind of car" and who has the income to buy said car if it meets my requirements.
It's odd, I almost never see dudes driving these things locally, it's always an attractive 20-something girl. Not that I'm complaining.
In reply to z31maniac:
Ok chicken little, lets ease off from the teenage melodrama. This is a niche market car, not a mass market car. Always has been, always will be. This was no secret to the Subaru or Toyota when they developed the platform. Nor should it be a surprise to any of us, including you. Thus far I would actually consider sales to be reasonable, if not strong, in the USA compared to other obviously niche market cars. While the FRS/BRZ may not enjoy the sales volume of the Camaro or Mustang, that does not automatically make them failures either, as I'm pretty confident that there is a significantly higher average profit margin on every FRS/BRZ sold than the deeply discounted domestics. It also should come as no surprise to see sports car sales decline (aka the sky is "plummeting") in the winter months after peaking in the summer months. Finally, over the typical production lifecycle, it's both predicted and expected that sales will generally tend to ebb from year to year.
Based on your annual sales volume expectations, a few of the other cars that are all similarly (to much more so) "not a success" include: Mazda Miata, Audi TT, Mercedes SLK, BMW Z4, BMW 1-Series, Cadillac ATS, Hyundai Genesis, Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Hyundai Veloster, Nissan 370Z, WRX/STI, and VW GTI...And don't forget that failure known as the S2000, so dark and dismal of a period in their history that Honda wants to have a 3-tier RWD sports car lineup.
At the end of the day, this car falls into a poor category of price versus what you get.
For the price, if you can afford this, for not much more monthly payment, you can get a much better car. The twins are not very practical, most people suprisingly enough can't afford a car strictly for fun, even enthusiasts.
And as said, being murica, people would rather have more hp for the price. And handling is not exclusive from power anymore.
I always here the argument people don't cross shop on price. But they totally do, even if the cars are completely different. The twins would be way more of a sales hit with 50+ more factory hp and an extra $5k on the price tag. Hell, I'd have bought one versus waiting for the Focus RS.
What better cars are out there for $25k?
The answer's obvious: When there's no money on the line, ask 100 people if they'd buy car X. Probably half would say "yes." Now say, "Okay, here it is, write a check for $25K", then stand back for an incredibly long list of excuses spews forth. People like to talk about what they can do a lot more than what they actually do.
In reply to z31maniac:
I'm going to be honest here. I was so stoked for the car I was calling the local dealership to arrange a test drive every couple of days like a 12 year old kid. Once they finally had one that wasn't spoken for I stopped in and drove it.... and found it to be not what I wanted.
Something about the car didn't do it for me. I loved the 350Z and the Miata but after driving it I didn't see why I even got excited about it. For the car to be what I wanted I'd have to do what GPS said and void the hell out of the warranty. Coupled with an nascent aftermarket, and all the nonsense that goes into certifying parts for California, when I actually needed a new car I wasn't real sure if the car could ever be what I wanted. So I took a pass.
If I were in the market again right this second I might consider one, but the MS3 sure is way more convenient with 2.0 here and all her support equipment.
Put something other than a boxer motor in it and I'd be interested.
I see the damned things around here quite often, so I'd say they are doing fine, button car sales always takes a hit at the end of the year.
I am,still considering one in the future. I even went so far as to price our payments when I dropped my fiance's car off at the dealership. Then I decided to pick up an sw20 for $3k and turn it into whatever I want for a fraction of the price. I have two issues:
Boxer engine reliability - it doesn't help I know two people who needed engine replacements
While pretty nice, the mustang is a much more comfortable DD for a big guy when traffic hits. I would almost want it more if it were a two seater and more one dimensional as it would be a strict weekend car. An s2000 type car I could fit in comfortably.
Those that have read my post on the ownership experience will be well aware that I am not a fan-boi for the car or brand. However,the bottom line is that people that own them seem happy because the car really does change your daily driving experience because of the low mass, sharp steering and RWD platform; these attributes are evident every time you drive the car. And it is stupid cheap. (But not as cheap as those that complain about its price-tag
)
And once again, I will pose the question that nobody has yet answered: "What function exactly can this car not fulfill due to it's perceived lack of power?"
As to the sky is falling sales figures? I would need to have a lot more data than a single magazine article before I made any conclusions.
I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I'm never spending the money for a new car - or even a nice car - as long as I live anyplace that has winter.
Hardly ever see one around here, but I keep seeing a bunch of those CRX looking Hyundai hatchbacks. Hard to miss them as it seems they all have blinged out graphics, stickers, or wings on them. Its like the 90s all over again with these things. Makes me wonder if the scooter gang kids grew up to be the ricer Hyundai hipsters.
kb58 wrote: The answer's obvious: When there's no money on the line, ask 100 people if they'd buy car X. Probably half would say "yes." Now say, "Okay, here it is, write a check for $25K", then stand back for an incredibly long list of excuses spews forth. People like to talk about what they can do a lot more than what they actually do.
So true of many things in life, be it buying band PA equipment or building a Chumpcar.
You'll need to log in to post.
