FR-S and BRZ sales are plummeting?

Harvey wrote: I have a kid and if I owned one it would have to be a third car since I would need a kid transporter and as a third car it is not as interesting as say a used Porsche Cayman or a used Corvette. I have driven them and I really think they have a great cockpit and handle well, but I'd want something a little crazier if I wasn't going to use it as a daily.

I'm in this boat... it's not practical enough as a DD and not crazy enough as a third car. Part of me still wants to mod the heck out of one just to have an underdog fight way above its class. I really hate to be seen with "high end" brands of anything. But financially a used Cayman/Elise/etc makes more sense.

The real issue is the final pricing (think out the door). With a base price of $25k-$26k after any options, dealer mark up etc a buyer is looking at nearly or more than $30k. Guess what is the same price...

WRX and honestly we're in America where bigger and more is always better therefore:

BRZ - 2 doors

WRX - 4 doors = better

BRZ - 2wd

WRX - 4wd = better

BRZ - decent interior space

WRX - way more interior space = better

BRZ - 4cyl motor

WRX - 4cyl motor w/ TURBO = better

BRZ - 2,800lbs

WRX - 3,300lbs = better (in the average consumers mind: 'cause 'MURICA heavy things rule!)

BRZ - brand new dedicated sports car chassis = better

WRX - econobox impreza chassis...

For an average consumer it's tough to justify a simple light sports car against a sedan that offers so much more at the same price. Dealers may not be helping on a recent visit when I mentioned I'd like to look at a BRZ the sales guy practically pushed me towards the WRX basically saying why would I want such a basic little car when I could get more stuff for the same price

What's all this dealer markup stuff you guys are throwing around?

I paid $1300 off MSRP for my 2015 BRZ Limited in October. And they even had to go get it from another dealer.

z31maniac wrote: What's all this dealer markup stuff you guys are throwing around? I paid $1300 off MSRP for my 2015 BRZ Limited in October. And they even had to go get it from another dealer.

Yeah, I don't think they are that in demand that you have to pay MSRP or god forbid anything over MSRP for them.

In reply to z31maniac:

Hearsay? I haven't actually looked at one at a dealer in awhile. Seeing a "market adjustment" adder wasn't uncommon. I'd hope if supply is starting to exceed demand that would stop. I'm sure my coworker would not have paid extra for his '14 FR-S.

I see quite a few of them around here in PA/NJ. Some modded, but mostly stock.

I think I've only ever seen a handful of BRZ/FR-S's on the road. Maybe they sell well in San Diego and Seattle, but around here they are very thin on the ground. I've never even looked at one that wasn't moving. Not seen one at a dealer nor parked in a parking lot, can't even comment for sure about whether I like the styling or not since I've only seen them in passing on the road. I also live in a place where there are a lot of retirees and in the summer when the tourists all come they arrive in minivans and SUVs for the most part.

There are 2-3 by me even though importing one would be incredibly expensive - $100k-$125k if done through a dealer, I've heard you can get them around $75k if you bring a used one from Japan yourself. Yes that is in US dollars.

Ian F wrote: In reply to z31maniac: Hearsay?

The "internet is an echo chamber" problem.

z31maniac wrote:

Ian F wrote: In reply to z31maniac: Hearsay?

The "internet is an echo chamber" problem.

I think it just depends upon your area and the ethics of the dealer. There are some good ones, some shysters, and some that only sell automatics.

The local scion dealers are shysters, while the subaru ones are more ethical than the company they represent, and the rest are auto lovers for the most part.

I just talked to my coworker about his. The one he bought had been on the lot for quite some time (he estimated 10 months; purchased last Summer '14) and the dealer knocked off about $500 when he bought it. He still likes the car although he said the recent snow we've had in NJ have made it interesting. He's definitely considering real snow tires to replace the no-seasons that come on the car.

Harvey wrote: If practicality is a continuum then the twins end up on the impractical side. It won't get kid transport done if you have more than one. I won't fit a front facing seat behind me in the car at 6'1" and I venture to say even someone of average height won't fit one either. Let's just be realistic here, you're just not buying this if you have kids. If you have kids you get something else.

I disagree. I followed the FR-S from the rumour stage with anticipation, ready to put down my dollars on the first lightweight RWD sports car on the market in years and as I mentioned earlier in the thread I was hoping the FR-S would be like my 2000 Civic Si. Fun to drive, reliable and just practical enough to fit out small family.

Sadly, I was disappointed and we bought a Tacoma Access Cab instead. Yes, I wanted an FR-S but ended up with a Tacoma. I'm sure Toyota's marketers couldn't have predicted that.

Ya'll are evil! Made me go test drive a FR-S again today. Local dealer said they weren't selling very well and they were pricing them at $1200-$1500 below MSRP to try and move them. Still too expensive new, but I found a used one with 10k miles for $20k. Might go look at it tomorrow.

Aren't only 6,000 BRZs made every year?

So this somewhat reminds me of how Marion Barry said he was better than Ronald Reagan: "I was elected three times! What about Ronnie? Out in two!"

sjd wrote:

Harvey wrote: If practicality is a continuum then the twins end up on the impractical side. It won't get kid transport done if you have more than one. I won't fit a front facing seat behind me in the car at 6'1" and I venture to say even someone of average height won't fit one either. Let's just be realistic here, you're just not buying this if you have kids. If you have kids you get something else.

I disagree. I followed the FR-S from the rumour stage with anticipation, ready to put down my dollars on the first lightweight RWD sports car on the market in years and as I mentioned earlier in the thread I was hoping the FR-S would be like my 2000 Civic Si. Fun to drive, reliable and just practical enough to fit out small family. Sadly, I was disappointed and we bought a Tacoma Access Cab instead. Yes, I wanted an FR-S but ended up with a Tacoma. I'm sure Toyota's marketers couldn't have predicted that.

I'm confused, you say you disagree, but you seem to agree via the rest of your post.

Harvey wrote: I'm confused, you say you disagree, but you seem to agree via the rest of your post.

Good point. I agree with you that the twins end up as impractical but I disagree that no one with kids would consider buying this car. My point was that I tried. :)

Knurled wrote: Aren't only 6,000 BRZs made every year? So this somewhat reminds me of how Marion Barry said he was better than Ronald Reagan: "I was elected three times! What about Ronnie? Out in two!"

At least for the first year. I was under the impression that demand had just finally died down/been fulfilled enough that you can actually get one for MSRP.

On this week's Smoking Tire podcast, Jack Baruth (who was overall hilarious) explained this perfectly. He said that "GM is dumb enough to monitor web boards and build stuff according to what the web geeks allege they want. They are busy in their parents' basements and have no money to buy the cars they allege they want".

He's mostly right, IMHO. However, cars are WAY more expensive now than they were during the era of the EM1 Civic Si that the internet begged for and bought in droves. The rumors of the Civic Type R are putting it at $35-40k.

The BRZ/FRS didn't have enough power to satisfy the internet. However, the internet begged for it and then immediately bashed it en masse.

Just took a peek at a few dealerships locally (Subaru), Slim inventory and everything is optioned out to just about $30k. I think the public's general consensus is for that kind of money you should be getting a 6cyl or a turbo 4cyl.

What really happened is it didn't have enough power to satisfy the market for an enthusiast car beyond the original sales rush of people who like it just fine as it is. The remaining people who buy a tin top, RWD, manual trans 2+2 want this car with 260-300HP, LSD, and more brakes/grip. I'm not sure who thought it was a great idea to try selling a sports car with a fixed roof and acceptable power as opposed to an abundance of it in the US... but they have STi and TRD brands busy mucking about with trucks and wagons. They ought to give them the only sports car in the line-up, no?

I like the looks of the twins, and for the most part I like their specs on paper, except for the power output, and the fact that it's a Subie based engine. I just don't get why they made a boxer that wasn't straight out of the Subie parts bin, and at the same time is no more reliable than a regular Subie engine (and possibly worse according to some reports).

Also, like most on this forum, I really don't buy new cars, but if I did, I strongly suspect that I could get more for the same money elsewhere, or a whole lot more for a bit more money.

Make the out-the-door price a few thousand less, or bump up the power and grip (without adding weight ) and the would be much more attractive to me.

I don't understand the "failing in sales thing."

They're selling all the cars they're making. This wasn't a high volume car.

That said, they're still $1200-$2000 under msrp here. I wish i was in a place to buy. I would love to have one but have to play big boy with finances.

Well, I did my part to make the "falling sales thing" both true and false in one shot. Acquired a used 2013 with 9400 miles on it today. Got home with it an hour ago.

This one's mine!

Any good FR-S forums?

gamby wrote: On this week's Smoking Tire podcast, Jack Baruth (who was overall hilarious) explained this perfectly. He said that "GM is dumb enough to monitor web boards and build stuff according to what the web geeks allege they want. They are busy in their parents' basements and have no money to buy the cars they allege they want". He's mostly right, IMHO. However, cars are WAY more expensive now than they were during the era of the EM1 Civic Si that the internet begged for and bought in droves. The rumors of the Civic Type R are putting it at $35-40k. The BRZ/FRS didn't have enough power to satisfy the internet. However, the internet begged for it and then immediately bashed it en masse.

The WRX and Evo were successful as well. I agree that cost is the biggest factor and now instead of spending $35-40K on a Civic Type R there are a lot of good used enthusiast cars to choose from for less money.

I would love to own one, I enjoyed driving one; but...the price tag drove me away for basically what my Civic Si was with RWD instead of FWD and less space and no fun engine noises like a K series Honda makes. Plus it's not practical for a family. I bought an STI instead and I'm happy with the decision but for some reason every time I see a frisbee on the road I'm like "at least I could get sideways in that"

I don't think it's a failure though because I've seen them everywhere and I've lived in four different metropolitan areas in the past four years. They aren't a well established household name like Mustang or Camaro nor do they have a 350+hp engine to sell to the old timers who just like good old fashioned straight line speed.

It was interior size that did it for us. GF in the front seat with 8yo behind her, they didn't fit. I bought a 2015 Fiat 500 Abarth instead. Front seat all the way back, and 8yo still has enough room to be comfy in the back seat.

And I don't know whether it's a bonus or not, but on my admittedly long commute to work, I'll see a couple dozen BR-Z/FR-Ss. I might see one other 500, and if it's an Abarth, that's a big deal and there are waves and thumbs up. :)

But, yeah, NASA rates it a full class slower. It's 300 someodd pounds lighter, a little slower without any work done to it, but we all fit better into it. And it is tiny and cute and fun. So, yeah, I helped the sales fall, too.