91 vs. 93 | Are you giving up power?

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to wspohn :

The OEMs never hunt forward.  With some combustion chambers you can advance the timing until the engine stalls and never detonate.  This way lies poor performance, poor economy, and high NOx.

Pete, you are right - they have a preset point they start at and retard when necessary from that. If the preset point is poorly chosen or they are using a lower grade of fuel , that means a lot of knock retard going on.

I used to use a manual timing control in one of my race cars which did allow me to advance until knock was detected and then manually back off a bit.

z31maniac said:

alfadriver said:

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

I wish we could use other sources for ethanol, but corn gets the tax break. Sugar down south, sugar beets up here. Don't take off sugar, ferment it all. 

I thought the feds ended ethanol subsidies a few years ago? 

Maybe they did, but corn ethanol is still cheap, which doesn't make sense. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to wspohn :

The OEMs never hunt forward.  With some combustion chambers you can advance the timing until the engine stalls and never detonate.  This way lies poor performance, poor economy, and high NOx.

 

What there usually is, is a perfect timing curve, and the knock sensor pulls timing, sometimes adaptively long term (I know Subarus do this) and other times they just switch to a low octane set of maps until the next refueling (I know GM does this).

 

I am curious what the timing is like on the Ford 3.5/3.7 sixes.  I didn't know until fairly recently that they had 12:1 compression.   How many people lug those around in 5000lb trucks on the cheapest gas at the Getgo.

The 12:1 part is pretty new for the NA versions- would have come with DI being added. 
 

Not many engines are super tuned to premium, some because customers are cheap and just put regular in, but more because it takes a lot of hoops to demonstrate the benefit for both requirements and the sticker. 
 

For me, if EPA and CARB would get on their regulation wagon, and require premium fuel at a nominal cost ( not the high profit margin it gets ) it would be an easy reduction in CO2 going foreword. And it would shift some of the burden to the oil companies. 

alfadriver said:

z31maniac said:

alfadriver said:

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

I wish we could use other sources for ethanol, but corn gets the tax break. Sugar down south, sugar beets up here. Don't take off sugar, ferment it all. 

I thought the feds ended ethanol subsidies a few years ago? 

Maybe they did, but corn ethanol is still cheap, which doesn't make sense. 

If you're anti ethanol replacing it with methanol will happen.   It an easy and cheap  way to achieve the required octane  to use most of a barrel of oil.  

In reply to frenchyd :

If you bother to read my posts, you would know I'm pro ethanol. Just want more sources than corn, since it requires a lot of energy just to get to the fermentation stage. 

alfadriver said:

z31maniac said:

alfadriver said:

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

I wish we could use other sources for ethanol, but corn gets the tax break. Sugar down south, sugar beets up here. Don't take off sugar, ferment it all. 

I thought the feds ended ethanol subsidies a few years ago? 

Maybe they did, but corn ethanol is still cheap, which doesn't make sense. 

I think they're still working through the backlog of corn that started piling up in the mid 2010s when the market figured out that E85 wasn't the magic bullet.

alfadriver said:

In reply to frenchyd :

If you bother to read my posts, you would know I'm pro ethanol. Just want more sources than corn, since it requires a lot of energy just to get to the fermentation stage. 

Well sugar isn't going to be it.  Americans  pay twice the global price for it.  It has to do with the anti Cuban position.  Plus the investors in Florida sugar plantations. 
    You would need to untangle the politics tangle between Minnesota & North Dakota sugar beet farmers, plus Florida Sugar cane growers.  Cuban Expats and the political party they are all in.  

In reply to GCrites80s :

Very little corn has gone into E85. Most has gone into E10&15.  
 Actually mostE85  has gone into wacko wanna be racers and those who can't afford $14 a gallon for racing fuel. Like me. 

frenchyd said:

Very little corn has gone into E85. Most has gone into E10&15.  
 Actually mostE85  has gone into wacko wanna be racers and those who can't afford $14 a gallon for racing fuel. Like me. 

Just so you think before you type, you do realize those two sentences have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other, and very little to do with the discussion. 

frenchyd said:

alfadriver said:

In reply to frenchyd :

If you bother to read my posts, you would know I'm pro ethanol. Just want more sources than corn, since it requires a lot of energy just to get to the fermentation stage. 

Well sugar isn't going to be it.  Americans  pay twice the global price for it.  It has to do with the anti Cuban position.  Plus the investors in Florida sugar plantations. 
    You would need to untangle the politics tangle between Minnesota & North Dakota sugar beet farmers, plus Florida Sugar cane growers.  Cuban Expats and the political party they are all in.  

Please. Just stop it. I was enjoying the intelligent  discussion. Preach your political nonsense elsewhere. Please.  

In reply to 03Panther :

It's simply explaining why  Sugar won't be the source of ethanol.  I happen to agree with Alfadriver regarding the suitability to other sources for ethanol.  And why corn is the source. 

Here is my? Tuner in route.             2011 mustang gt

Thrtlcontrol in route.                  Coyote 6sp 3.73s

Gonna have a 91 race and 91 performance   

We only have 87 89 92. Or a 91 non ethanol 

How ever I've heard people complain about shell.

They have the 91 non. My ?s run 92 or the 91.